Importance and Benefit of Ngondro

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KristenM
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Importance and Benefit of Ngondro

Post by KristenM »

Apologies if this is covered already elsewhere...there’s over 300 pages on Ngondro and I haven’t been able to read each post.

That said, what is the importance and benefit of completing Ngondro for everyday folk, not young monks and nuns who may be able finish in a shorter while? How many of you have done one, or even more Ngondro’s? I’m not asking because I doubt the purpose, but I would like to hear others thoughts on why not skipping it is of value.

My personal story is that I’m still working on mine. I am committed to finishing and have already passed the idea of just quitting and saying it isn’t for me.
Arnoud
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Re: Importance and Benefit of Ngondro

Post by Arnoud »

Well, it’s a complete path so how could there not be benefit?

Dependent on the teacher you can do other practices before you are finished. I think for most of us the prostrations are the most annoying to finish. Some people finish in two years, others in 10-20.

Also, for most traditional teachers it shows a certain commitment so you will have easier access to more advanced practices in different lineages just by the virtue of having completed one.
The only shortcut is just getting the signs and then you don’t need the numbers although there might be some disagreement about that still.
GrapeLover
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Re: Importance and Benefit of Ngondro

Post by GrapeLover »

If you are up for a book, then Entering the Great Expanse by Tulku Sherdor is very good on this topic
pemachophel
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Re: Importance and Benefit of Ngondro

Post by pemachophel »

:good:
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ
Danny
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Re: Importance and Benefit of Ngondro

Post by Danny »

The benefit is the accumulations
Of merit and wisdom, and also purification.
These are all solid foundations.
I did the refuge prayers and prostrations together.
Then the mandala offerings,
And vajrasattva part separate so I could really concentrate on those. Meet with your guru when time allows.
Then the guru yoga aspect if guru is happy your progressing.

So lots of benefits, nothing negative, and you have more time than you think.
As for its importance? That’s really up to the practitioner.
Malcolm
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Re: Importance and Benefit of Ngondro

Post by Malcolm »

TharpaChodron wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:06 pm Apologies if this is covered already elsewhere...there’s over 300 pages on Ngondro and I haven’t been able to read each post.

That said, what is the importance and benefit of completing Ngondro for everyday folk, not young monks and nuns who may be able finish in a shorter while? How many of you have done one, or even more Ngondro’s? I’m not asking because I doubt the purpose, but I would like to hear others thoughts on why not skipping it is of value.
No one ever completes ngondro. It is just not like that.
Danny
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Re: Importance and Benefit of Ngondro

Post by Danny »

Malcolm wrote: Sun Jun 27, 2021 9:25 pm
TharpaChodron wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:06 pm Apologies if this is covered already elsewhere...there’s over 300 pages on Ngondro and I haven’t been able to read each post.

That said, what is the importance and benefit of completing Ngondro for everyday folk, not young monks and nuns who may be able finish in a shorter while? How many of you have done one, or even more Ngondro’s? I’m not asking because I doubt the purpose, but I would like to hear others thoughts on why not skipping it is of value.
No one ever completes ngondro. It is just not like that.
Wow never heard it said like that, but that’s actually accurate.
Soma999
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Re: Importance and Benefit of Ngondro

Post by Soma999 »

Ngondro is a practice. By itself it is very profund.

Accumulating ngondros is something else.

Accumulating high numbers can be beneficial for some, and counter-productive for others.

The goal is not to attain a high number. A recorder can attain high number, a parrots also, a computer...

The goal is to be transformed by the practice.

If you have the right intention it will be beneficial. If your intention becomes number, it is not sure you will get the best out of your practice.

The power of your practice depends mainly on your intention. When we speak about very high numbers, it can change the quality of intention in a negative way.

Numbers by themselves are nothing. It can even be a form of clinging, and become an obstacle.
KristenM
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Re: Importance and Benefit of Ngondro

Post by KristenM »

Malcolm wrote: Sun Jun 27, 2021 9:25 pm
TharpaChodron wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:06 pm Apologies if this is covered already elsewhere...there’s over 300 pages on Ngondro and I haven’t been able to read each post.

That said, what is the importance and benefit of completing Ngondro for everyday folk, not young monks and nuns who may be able finish in a shorter while? How many of you have done one, or even more Ngondro’s? I’m not asking because I doubt the purpose, but I would like to hear others thoughts on why not skipping it is of value.
No one ever completes ngondro. It is just not like that.
Oh, indeed. I’m not waiting for my girl scout badge for completing Ngondro. ;)
KristenM
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Re: Importance and Benefit of Ngondro

Post by KristenM »

Thanks to those who answered my question, I really appreciate your thoughts.
Malcolm
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Re: Importance and Benefit of Ngondro

Post by Malcolm »

TharpaChodron wrote: Sun Jun 27, 2021 11:16 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sun Jun 27, 2021 9:25 pm
TharpaChodron wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:06 pm Apologies if this is covered already elsewhere...there’s over 300 pages on Ngondro and I haven’t been able to read each post.

That said, what is the importance and benefit of completing Ngondro for everyday folk, not young monks and nuns who may be able finish in a shorter while? How many of you have done one, or even more Ngondro’s? I’m not asking because I doubt the purpose, but I would like to hear others thoughts on why not skipping it is of value.
No one ever completes ngondro. It is just not like that.
Oh, indeed. I’m not waiting for my girl scout badge for completing Ngondro. ;)
All one gets for doing ngondro is a participation 🏆.
tingdzin
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Re: Importance and Benefit of Ngondro

Post by tingdzin »

A little arrogant to think that no one ever gained anything from finishing ngondro, no? "One size fits all" is not a good approach to Dharma.
Malcolm
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Re: Importance and Benefit of Ngondro

Post by Malcolm »

tingdzin wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:29 am A little arrogant to think that no one ever gained anything from finishing ngondro, no? "One size fits all" is not a good approach to Dharma.
It’s obvious what one gets from doing classic ngondro, one purifies traces and gathers the accumulations. But this is so obvious it hardly bears mentioning.
Inedible
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Re: Importance and Benefit of Ngondro

Post by Inedible »

I don't see the problem. It specifically says in the Diamond Cutter Sutra that even in the case of full Enlightenment you don't gain anything. So why would you from doing preliminaries?
KristenM
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Re: Importance and Benefit of Ngondro

Post by KristenM »

Maybe you don’t “gain” anything in the absolute sense since you’re not creating anything you didn’t have from the beginning. But, you might change something in the relative sense. Even though numbers of accumulations are essentially meaningless, I see a difference between doing a small bit and doing a larger amount. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s like doing 10 sit-ups compared to 50 sit-ups, but for the relative mind instead of your abs. And for a lazy person like me, developing more diligence, patience etc does help towards the “real work.”
Terma
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Re: Importance and Benefit of Ngondro

Post by Terma »

Preparing for Tantra: Creating the Psyc ... kgs/wVsvVh

This is actually a pretty good book putting ngondro in perspective for a western Buddhist practitioner. Very helpful and worth the read for those doing or aspiring to do ngondro.
Tata1
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Re: Importance and Benefit of Ngondro

Post by Tata1 »

TharpaChodron wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:03 am Maybe you don’t “gain” anything in the absolute sense since you’re not creating anything you didn’t have from the beginning. But, you might change something in the relative sense. Even though numbers of accumulations are essentially meaningless, I see a difference between doing a small bit and doing a larger amount. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s like doing 10 sit-ups compared to 50 sit-ups, but for the relative mind instead of your abs. And for a lazy person like me, developing more diligence, patience etc does help towards the “real work.”
Well but here would be 10 sit ups with correct form are better than 50 shitty ones
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yagmort
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Re: Importance and Benefit of Ngondro

Post by yagmort »

Tata1 wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 2:36 pm Well but here would be 10 sit ups with correct form are better than 50 shitty ones...
well, it's not either 50 shitty or 10 correct ones as your choice. first you do shitty ones, through that you eventually learn how to do good ones, be it 10 or 100...


perhaps i am pretty shortsighted in my opinion about that, but the whole thing we are doing with tibetan buddhism is based on practice. we can not attain liberation by reasoning, reading books or any other intellectual approach. we need to practice, we need to make our everyday life and practice an indivisible entity. honestly i don't see how we can genuinely progress on the path if we don't develop unbending determination to make life a practice, and not like a few hours of sadhana and then netflix or something.

this is where ngöndro comes into play: done properly, it trains us make a practice an essential and integral part of our existence, despite other pursuits our monkey mind want us to diverge into.

so, what i discovered personally is that ngöndro is crucial for 2 things in my case: 1. break the resistance of a rational mind/ego, which does not wanna do any boring repetitive things and find all sorts of excuses and reasons why it is not really necessary, and 2. make a firm habit for a structured everyday sessions practice.

imho there is no such thing as "not my thing" when it comes to practice. sure, we all have certain proclivities, so there are different approaches we can choose from, like chö, dzogchen, lamdre, etc. but whatever we practice, it does not suppose to please or entertain our monkey mind. if it does - we do something wrong. so i see ngöndro as our first attempt to learn how to do a practice which does not entertain our monkey mind/rational mind. thoughts like "not my thing" is what monkey mind thinks when something is threatening its position.
stay open, spread love
Malcolm
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Re: Importance and Benefit of Ngondro

Post by Malcolm »

yagmort wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 7:03 pm
imho there is no such thing as "not my thing" when it comes to practice.
Sure there is.
thoughts like "not my thing" is what monkey mind thinks when something is threatening its position.
Not necessarily.
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Re: Importance and Benefit of Ngondro

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

I’ve heard that Situ R says it is possible to become enlightened doing NgonDro. However I can’t source where he says it. Plus he’s Kagyu and we’re in the Nyingma forum.
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2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
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Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
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