nyingma lineages/cycles structures of practice.

mutsuk
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Re: nyingma lineages/cycles structures of practice.

Post by mutsuk »

yagmort wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:20 pm by any chance, do you know the curriculum for Göngpa Zangthel ?
If you read French, you should definitely consult S. Arguillère's paper on the various practice manuals of the Gongpa Zangthel. It is available here :

http://himalaya.socanth.cam.ac.uk/colle ... 43_07.pdf
It is very good.
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yagmort
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Re: nyingma lineages/cycles structures of practice.

Post by yagmort »

thanks mutsuk, but i am not.

is there an adequate and accurate english translation of Gongpa Zangthal ?

i think Stéphane was being asked by Chime Rigdzin Rinpoche to make one, but i am not sure if he is going to make it..
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Malcolm
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Re: nyingma lineages/cycles structures of practice.

Post by Malcolm »

yagmort wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:14 pm thanks mutsuk, but i am not.

is there an adequate and accurate english translation of Gongpa Zangthal ?

i think Stéphane was being asked by Chime Rigdzin Rinpoche to make one, but i am not sure if he is going to make it..
It’s four volumes long. My translation, Buddhahood in This Life, is one of the more important texts in this cycle.
mutsuk
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Re: nyingma lineages/cycles structures of practice.

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yagmort wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:14 pm thanks mutsuk, but i am not.
JLA just told me that this paper is going to be translated into English in a special issue of the RET forthcoming in 2022.
is there an adequate and accurate english translation of Gongpa Zangthal ?
Apparently there is indeed one complete translation of the 4 volumes by Katarina Turpeinen. I haven't seen it and I don't know if she also did the Kadak Rangjung Rangshar.
JL has a nearly complete translation of the Gongpa Zanthel in French. Five small volumes (out of print) were published in the early 1990s (essentially the manual by Tulku Tsullo) and one more recently on the Oral Transmission of Padmasambhava.
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yagmort
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Re: nyingma lineages/cycles structures of practice.

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Malcolm wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:20 pm It’s four volumes long. My translation, Buddhahood in This Life, is one of the more important texts in this cycle.
cool, thanks. being Vimalamitra commentary i wasn't aware it comes from Gongpa Zangthal. do i need GZ wang to read it?


mutsuk wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:58 pm JLA just told me that this paper is going to be translated into English in a special issue of the RET forthcoming in 2022...
do you mind if i ask you to please let us know when it happens?
mutsuk wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:58 pm..Apparently there is indeed one complete translation of the 4 volumes by Katarina Turpeinen..
do you mean Vision of Samantabhadra?

mutsuk wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:58 pm... if she also did the Kadak Rangjung Rangshar...
i know nothing about Gongpa Zangthal, so please any of you help me here. are both Kadak Rangjung Rangshar and Gongpa Zangthal parts of Northern Treasures, or Kadak Rangjung Rangshar is a part of Gongpa Zangthal?
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Malcolm
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Re: nyingma lineages/cycles structures of practice.

Post by Malcolm »

mutsuk wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:58 pm Apparently there is indeed one complete translation of the 4 volumes by Katarina Turpeinen. I haven't seen it and I don't know if she also did the Kadak Rangjung Rangshar.
Yes, and there is also mine, including the Kadag Rangshar, which has been sitting in manuscript for ten years. But it is not edited and not in publishable form.
mutsuk
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Re: nyingma lineages/cycles structures of practice.

Post by mutsuk »

yagmort wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:45 pm $do you mind if i ask you to please let us know when it happens?
Of course, when I know, I'll post the reference here for download.
do you mean Vision of Samantabhadra?
This is her PhD, but I've been told that she has also done a complete translation of the 4 volumes. I don't know if it is scheduled any time for publication.

i know nothing about Gongpa Zangthal, so please any of you help me here. are both Kadak Rangjung Rangshar and Gongpa Zangthal parts of Northern Treasures, or Kadak Rangjung Rangshar is a part of Gongpa Zangthal?
They are both part of the Northern Treasures and Kadak Rangjung Rangshar often comes together with the Gongpa Zangthel (as a 5th volume added to the 4 of the Zangthel itself) in modern editions, although it has also been published separately.
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Re: nyingma lineages/cycles structures of practice.

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mutsuk wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:48 pm Of course, when I know, I'll post the reference here for download.
thanks a lot. also thanks a lot for pointing me out towards Turpeinen. so far her content answers most of my questions regarding Gongpa Zangthal.

mutsuk wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:48 pm They are both part of the Northern Treasures and Kadak Rangjung Rangshar often comes together with the Gongpa Zangthel (as a 5th volume added to the 4 of the Zangthel itself) in modern editions, although it has also been published separately.
yes, thank you. heres what Terpeinen writes about it
...the four volumes of The Unimpeded Realization of Samantabhadra. Godem's Great Perfection revelation also contains one more volume, The Self-Emergent Self-Arisen Primordial Purity (Ka dag rang byung rang shar), that is variously considered as the fifth volume of The Unimpeded Realization or a separate work*

* Most practice commentaries (khrid) on The Unimpeded Realization treat The Self-Emergent Self-Arisen Primodial Purity as a separate work with the notable exception of Zurchen Chosdbyings ranggrol's Island of Liberation, which regards themas a single anthology. The Received Teachings of the Great Fifth Dalai Lama also discusse The Self-Emergent Self-Arisen Primordial Purity together with The Unimpeded Realization undoubtedly due to the influence of Zurchen, who was his teacher. It seems that there were several strands of thought regarding this matter reflected also in the modern editions of the anthology. The gNas chung block print edition by Chosrje Sakya yar'phel (19th century) leaves out The Self-Emergent Self-Arisen Primordial Purity, while the Adzom chosgar blocks carved through efforts of A'dzom D'brug pa (1842-1924) regard The Self-Emergent Self-Arisen Primordial Purity as a cycle and fifth volume of
The Unimpeded Realization. In the rDorje brag monastery in exile, they were transmitted together as a single anthology by the late Taglung Tsetrul Rinpoche, which is how he received them in rDorje brag in Tibet...
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Re: nyingma lineages/cycles structures of practice.

Post by biryani »

What about Terton Pegyal Lingpa's Kusum Gongdu?
mutsuk
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Re: nyingma lineages/cycles structures of practice.

Post by mutsuk »

biryani wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:35 am What about Terton Pegyal Lingpa's Kusum Gongdu?
His Kusum Gongdü has 4 volumes, very nicely printed in Delhi in 2002. Not much Dzogchen in it, except in the Tantra of the Lotus Quintessence (Padma snying po'i rgyud, vol. 1) which has nice (classical) Trekchö-Thögel instructions.
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Re: nyingma lineages/cycles structures of practice.

Post by biryani »

mutsuk wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:35 pm
biryani wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:35 am What about Terton Pegyal Lingpa's Kusum Gongdu?
His Kusum Gongdü has 4 volumes, very nicely printed in Delhi in 2002. Not much Dzogchen in it, except in the Tantra of the Lotus Quintessence (Padma snying po'i rgyud, vol. 1) which has nice (classical) Trekchö-Thögel instructions.
Thank you!
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Re: nyingma lineages/cycles structures of practice.

Post by rai »

Sennin wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:18 am

... He explained that the tummo section is auxiliary.



does one need to be very skilled yogi to benefit from those auxiliaries ?

would someone over 40 (done kumbhaka course with Fabio) get something out of it? isn't it too old?
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yagmort
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Re: nyingma lineages/cycles structures of practice.

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1.
rai wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:29 am ...does one need to be very skilled yogi to benefit from those auxiliaries ?

would someone over 40 (done kumbhaka course with Fabio) get something out of it? isn't it too old?
hey rai, my guess is that depends on how fit you are. i assume if you can do vajra leaps and don't have complications with your spine then why not.

2. was/is there Vima Nyingthig transmission which didn't pass through Longchenpa? or he was a sole lineage holder at the time?

3. did Kunzang Dechen Lingpa mostly practiced Düdjom Tersar Tröma ? if not then what else? also, what kind of practices his own termas contain, if that is possible to say?
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Re: nyingma lineages/cycles structures of practice.

Post by Natan »

yagmort wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:26 pm
mutsuk wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:48 pm Of course, when I know, I'll post the reference here for download.
thanks a lot. also thanks a lot for pointing me out towards Turpeinen. so far her content answers most of my questions regarding Gongpa Zangthal.

mutsuk wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:48 pm They are both part of the Northern Treasures and Kadak Rangjung Rangshar often comes together with the Gongpa Zangthel (as a 5th volume added to the 4 of the Zangthel itself) in modern editions, although it has also been published separately.
yes, thank you. heres what Terpeinen writes about it
...the four volumes of The Unimpeded Realization of Samantabhadra. Godem's Great Perfection revelation also contains one more volume, The Self-Emergent Self-Arisen Primordial Purity (Ka dag rang byung rang shar), that is variously considered as the fifth volume of The Unimpeded Realization or a separate work*

* Most practice commentaries (khrid) on The Unimpeded Realization treat The Self-Emergent Self-Arisen Primodial Purity as a separate work with the notable exception of Zurchen Chosdbyings ranggrol's Island of Liberation, which regards themas a single anthology. The Received Teachings of the Great Fifth Dalai Lama also discusse The Self-Emergent Self-Arisen Primordial Purity together with The Unimpeded Realization undoubtedly due to the influence of Zurchen, who was his teacher. It seems that there were several strands of thought regarding this matter reflected also in the modern editions of the anthology. The gNas chung block print edition by Chosrje Sakya yar'phel (19th century) leaves out The Self-Emergent Self-Arisen Primordial Purity, while the Adzom chosgar blocks carved through efforts of A'dzom D'brug pa (1842-1924) regard The Self-Emergent Self-Arisen Primordial Purity as a cycle and fifth volume of
The Unimpeded Realization. In the rDorje brag monastery in exile, they were transmitted together as a single anthology by the late Taglung Tsetrul Rinpoche, which is how he received them in rDorje brag in Tibet...
He did this in Tehachapi as well.
Malcolm
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Re: nyingma lineages/cycles structures of practice.

Post by Malcolm »

yagmort wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 1:07 pm
3. did Kunzang Dechen Lingpa mostly practiced Düdjom Tersar Tröma ? if not then what else? also, what kind of practices his own termas contain, if that is possible to say?
KDL's Termas have seven cycles in general: Guru RInpoche Yizhin Gyalpo, Kunzang Thukthik (a standing form of Guru Rinpoche), Drollo, Troma, Dechen Karmo, Kurukulla, and Simhamukha. The main three roots are Guru RInpoche Yizhin Gyalpo, Dechen Karmo (Yeshe Tsogyal) and Drollo. There are many other practices as well.

He also has an earth terma as well, called Tsasum Drildrup, three roots combined into one practice.
mutsuk
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Re: nyingma lineages/cycles structures of practice.

Post by mutsuk »

yagmort wrote: 2. was/is there Vima Nyingthig transmission which didn't pass through Longchenpa? or he was a sole lineage holder at the time?
Kumaradza gave the Bima Nyingthik to the 3rd Karmapa Rangjung Dorje. I don't know how far (and long) it went into the Kagyüs though. The Karma Nyingthik of Rangjung Dorje soon took over in his branch of the lineage.
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Re: nyingma lineages/cycles structures of practice.

Post by rai »

yagmort wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 1:07 pm 1.
rai wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:29 am ...does one need to be very skilled yogi to benefit from those auxiliaries ?

would someone over 40 (done kumbhaka course with Fabio) get something out of it? isn't it too old?
hey rai, my guess is that depends on how fit you are. i assume if you can do vajra leaps and don't have complications with your spine then why not.
thanks :anjali:
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yagmort
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Re: nyingma lineages/cycles structures of practice.

Post by yagmort »

please keep in mind i am not familiar with Chetsün Nyingthig cycle, so i don't know how tummo is practiced according to it. that is why i have used cautious words like "guess" and "assume". Malcolm and Crazywisdom know better. what i said is applicable to kagyu way.
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yagmort
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Re: nyingma lineages/cycles structures of practice.

Post by yagmort »

yagmort wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 1:07 pm 2. was/is there Vima Nyingthig transmission which didn't pass through Longchenpa? or he was a sole lineage holder at the time?
in the 1994 article by Germano there is the footnote:

222. For example, Ronald Davidson pointed out in his presentation at the U. Va. Great Perfection symposium that U rgyan gter bdag gling pa does not even list kLong chen rab 'byams pa in his "teachings received" under Esoteric Precepts Series, but rather places gYung ston rdo rje dpal after Kumaradza.

it does not specify Vima Nyingthig though. did Kumaradza was a lineage holder of Vima Nyingthig only or other lineages/cycles as well?
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Re: nyingma lineages/cycles structures of practice.

Post by heart »

yagmort wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:37 pm
yagmort wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 1:07 pm 2. was/is there Vima Nyingthig transmission which didn't pass through Longchenpa? or he was a sole lineage holder at the time?
in the 1994 article by Germano there is the footnote:

222. For example, Ronald Davidson pointed out in his presentation at the U. Va. Great Perfection symposium that U rgyan gter bdag gling pa does not even list kLong chen rab 'byams pa in his "teachings received" under Esoteric Precepts Series, but rather places gYung ston rdo rje dpal after Kumaradza.

it does not specify Vima Nyingthig though. did Kumaradza was a lineage holder of Vima Nyingthig only or other lineages/cycles as well?
Kumaradza was a disciple of Melong Dorje. Got Dzogchen teachings from him probably the Melong Nyingtik.

https://treasuryoflives.org/biographies ... Dorje/8857

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