yagmort wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:16 pm
dzoki wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:54 am...There is a thogal instruction in Ngamdzong Nyengyu...
just to make that clear: are you talking about historical Ngandzong/demchog nyengyu or Shakta Shri's pure vision version? Shakya Shri was a dzogchenpa who received Kunzang Thugtig from Khamtrul Rinpoche and Chetsün Nyingthig from Adzom Drugpa, so is it possible he just mention about dzogchen approach here?
Both historical Ngamdzong Nyengyu and pure vision lineage. Let's set the historical Nyengyu aside for now. I clearly remember reading an English translation of instrucions interspersed with song given to Ngendzon Repa by Milarepa which mentioned practice of thogal, but I cannot for the love of all gods and demons locate it now, it seems internet swallowed it
From what I remember the style was somewhat similar to one in the collection of Milarepa´s songs edited by Lhatsun Rinchen Namgyal. I any case as soon I come across that song I will get back to this discussion. Hopefuly it was not a trick played on me by my own memory
In any case I intend to put together a thorough collection of Ngamdzong Nyengyu texts at some point in the future. Since there is to this date no such collection (at least not, that I know of) and bits and pieces of Ngamdzong Nyengyu are in various collections such as Drikung Chodzo Chenmo, Damngag Dzo, Gyude kuntu etc.
The pure vision "snyan rgyud gsal ba'i mthar thug" lineage history text called "lo rgyus gsal ba'i me long" says:
"First, concerning the very essence of Vajradhara's wisdom mind, the three cycles of Wishfulfilling gem of Aural lineage, the direct mind to mind lineage of Noble Vajravarahi (went) from Vajrarahi to Tilopa; from him the symbolic lineage of vidyadharas (went) to Naropa, from Naropa to lord Marpa Lotsawa, to Venerable Milarepa Rinpoche, from him to his heart son Ngamdzong Tonpa as continuous lineage from person to person. Alternatively it went from Marpa Lotsawa to Marpa Goyag (also known as Marpa Goleg), to (whom Marpa) gave the most profound instructions of Aural lineage that are like heart blood of all dakinis having few words yet profound meaning. (Goleg) then gave these most profound instructions like one wase being poured into another without exception to Ngamdzong Tonpa. Alternatively Shri Naropa gave all of the profound instructions of the Aural lineage to Venerable Tiphupa. Lord Tiphupa gave the cycle of Dharma of bodyless dakinis and all of profound instructions of Aural lineage to Venrable Rechungpa without remainder of any word or meaning. Rechungpa gave the instructions in totality to Ngamdzong Tonpa..."
So here Shakyashri treats this lineage with the terms of three dzogchen lineages. Also I don´t see a reason for Shakyashri to include note on thogal in the text just because he received it from various teachers and practiced it, he did not include thogal in his Drugpa Kagyu mahamudra teachings.