Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis

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bryandavis
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Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis

Post by bryandavis »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:47 pm
bryandavis wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:45 am
Malcolm wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:45 pm

Trekcho starts with the exhaustion of dharmata, that’s the point.
Lopön Malcom,

Exhaustion of dhatmata is the unfolding of the 4th vision no? Treckcho begins at this juncture?
Trekcho is related to the basis. All phenomena have always been exhausted in the basis. For this reason, Trekcho starts with the exhaustion of dharmatā, since it is not related to appearances.

So with this explanation Trekcho is a primordial aspect or vidya of knowing the union of kayak/lhundrup before a cracked vase so to speak.

But you are not using Treckcho as a expression of the practice of the "path" of Trekcho, as in one must have stabilized Trekcho before working with the visions.

If the adage of ones Trekcho must be stable before togal, then I am left to reason as above

Thank you for your time,

B.
Natan
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Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis

Post by Natan »

bryandavis wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:30 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:47 pm
bryandavis wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:45 am

Lopön Malcom,

Exhaustion of dhatmata is the unfolding of the 4th vision no? Treckcho begins at this juncture?
Trekcho is related to the basis. All phenomena have always been exhausted in the basis. For this reason, Trekcho starts with the exhaustion of dharmatā, since it is not related to appearances.

So with this explanation Trekcho is a primordial aspect or vidya of knowing the union of kayak/lhundrup before a cracked vase so to speak.

But you are not using Treckcho as a expression of the practice of the "path" of Trekcho, as in one must have stabilized Trekcho before working with the visions.

If the adage of ones Trekcho must be stable before togal, then I am left to reason as above

Thank you for your time,

B.
Stabilizes itself.
Kris
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Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis

Post by Kris »

I've read Longchenpa use a citation of Vimalamitra that says something like trekcho is the reversal of the four visions. Not sure entirely the meaning even so this idea is there in the tradition. :reading:
The profound path of the master.
-- Virūpa, Vajra Lines
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bryandavis
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Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis

Post by bryandavis »

Sennin wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:56 pm I've read Longchenpa use a citation of Vimalamitra that says something like trekcho is the reversal of the four visions. Not sure entirely the meaning even so this idea is there in the tradition. :reading:
Thank you. This sounds like what Malcom was pointing to. I feel my inquiry has been clarified, but always love to hear more.

Self arisen vidya tantra and buddhood trsnslations have been such a great support. Clarify what was murky and brightening more what was understood.

We live in a fortunate time.
Malcolm
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Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis

Post by Malcolm »

bryandavis wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:30 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:47 pm
bryandavis wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:45 am

Lopön Malcom,

Exhaustion of dhatmata is the unfolding of the 4th vision no? Treckcho begins at this juncture?
Trekcho is related to the basis. All phenomena have always been exhausted in the basis. For this reason, Trekcho starts with the exhaustion of dharmatā, since it is not related to appearances.
So with this explanation Trekcho is a primordial aspect or vidya of knowing the union of kayak/lhundrup before a cracked vase so to speak.
When practicing trekcho, one cannot find any phenomena to be exhausted. If one can find something to be exhausted, one is not practicing trekcho, and one will be unable to make any progress in thogal.
Kris
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Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis

Post by Kris »

bryandavis wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:03 pm
Sennin wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:56 pm I've read Longchenpa use a citation of Vimalamitra that says something like trekcho is the reversal of the four visions. Not sure entirely the meaning even so this idea is there in the tradition. :reading:
Thank you. This sounds like what Malcom was pointing to. I feel my inquiry has been clarified, but always love to hear more.

Self arisen vidya tantra and buddhood trsnslations have been such a great support. Clarify what was murky and brightening more what was understood.

We live in a fortunate time.
For sure. Reading through the Rigpa Rangshar is marvelous. It's always fresh and new. So deep with meaning. It's a lot I won't understand and I'm okay with that, just being able to glimpse some understanding while exploring these ancient texts brings me joy.
The profound path of the master.
-- Virūpa, Vajra Lines
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Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis

Post by Natan »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:07 pm
bryandavis wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:30 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:47 pm

Trekcho is related to the basis. All phenomena have always been exhausted in the basis. For this reason, Trekcho starts with the exhaustion of dharmatā, since it is not related to appearances.
So with this explanation Trekcho is a primordial aspect or vidya of knowing the union of kayak/lhundrup before a cracked vase so to speak.
When practicing trekcho, one cannot find any phenomena to be exhausted. If one can find something to be exhausted, one is not practicing trekcho, and one will be unable to make any progress in thogal.
It's the appearance of wisdoms which has all perfected qualities.
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bryandavis
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Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis

Post by bryandavis »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:07 pm
bryandavis wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:30 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:47 pm

Trekcho is related to the basis. All phenomena have always been exhausted in the basis. For this reason, Trekcho starts with the exhaustion of dharmatā, since it is not related to appearances.
So with this explanation Trekcho is a primordial aspect or vidya of knowing the union of kayak/lhundrup before a cracked vase so to speak.
When practicing trekcho, one cannot find any phenomena to be exhausted. If one can find something to be exhausted, one is not practicing trekcho, and one will be unable to make any progress in thogal.

Clear, thank you.
Hence their union and not seperated as practiced.
Malcolm
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Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis

Post by Malcolm »

Crazywisdom wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:29 pm

It's the appearance of wisdoms which has all perfected qualities.
You mean those qualities are not complete if those wisdoms don't appear?
Natan
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Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis

Post by Natan »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:08 pm
Crazywisdom wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:29 pm

It's the appearance of wisdoms which has all perfected qualities.
You mean those qualities are not complete if those wisdoms don't appear?
Not what I am saying.
Malcolm
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Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis

Post by Malcolm »

Crazywisdom wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:28 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:08 pm
Crazywisdom wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:29 pm

It's the appearance of wisdoms which has all perfected qualities.
You mean those qualities are not complete if those wisdoms don't appear?
Not what I am saying.
Then what are you saying?
Natan
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Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 5:48 pm

Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis

Post by Natan »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:46 pm
Crazywisdom wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:28 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:08 pm

You mean those qualities are not complete if those wisdoms don't appear?
Not what I am saying.
Then what are you saying?
By the time they appear all wisdoms are fully perfected.
Last edited by Natan on Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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