Hindu Deities in Tibetan Nyingma

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Chatral Rinpoche's passing

Post by dzogchungpa »

A nice tribute: http://levekunst.com/a-life-well-lived/.

An interesting bit from the above:
As Conventional as Unconventional
In many ways, Rinpoche could be quite conventional, and yet in others, he was quite the opposite. One instance of the manner in which Rinpoche could be unconventional, and which most people would not have been aware, prior to his passing away and which caused many some surprise, emerged only when the family compound in Parping was opened to the public. On the walls of the Lhakhang, which had been built inside the compound, were painted the Hindu deities of Shiva with his consort Parvati. On the left side of the shrine; Krishna with his consort Radha and their entourages along with various other representations of this kind.

Directly in front of the temple entrance, housed in its own separate building, is a Shiva lingam of generous size. To some traditional Buddhists, this would seem like a grave eccentricity in the lama and something quite inexplicable. However, Rinpoche had gone beyond the narrowness of needing to confine himself solely to the accepted and traditional Tibetan pantheon. He saw no conflict of interests. What these images represent is an expression of energy in its many and varied forms and this energy is universal. On more than one occasion I was with him when we visited a Hindu shrine. One which he dropped into regularly was the shrine on Tiger Hill near Darjeeling and there were others in various locations.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
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Vasana
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Re: Chatral Rinpoche's passing

Post by Vasana »

That part's not so surprising given the connection between some of the beings and symbols in Hinduism have counterparts in Buddhism.
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Losal Samten
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Re: Chatral Rinpoche's passing

Post by Losal Samten »

dzogchungpa wrote:An interesting bit from the above:
Mahasiddhas utilising Hindu imagery isn't particularly special, Dombi Heruka bowled about sporting Shiva's hair coil and he was a disciple of Mahasiddha "Hammer of Tirthikas" Virupa. Being able to tell visually a Buddhist siddha from a Hindu one back in the day wasn't very easy, even recently Khunu Lama spent much of his time in a Hindu temple and nobody around knew he was Buddhist. Buddhist siddhas binding and enforcing worldly gods to be their servants is the done thing; it's far from the Perennialist daydream.

What would have been 'interesting' was if Jadrel Rinpoche had images of Mary, or Mohammed riding on a buraq with his faced blanked out and so on.
Lacking mindfulness, we commit every wrong. - Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔
ཨོཾ་ཧ་ནུ་པྷ་ཤ་བྷ་ར་ཧེ་ཡེ་སྭཱ་ཧཱ།།
ཨཱོཾ་མ་ཏྲི་མུ་ཡེ་སལེ་འདུ།།
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heart
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Re: Chatral Rinpoche's passing

Post by heart »

The westerner in dreads is my old friend Nils from Sweden.

/magnus
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dzogchungpa
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Re: Chatral Rinpoche's passing

Post by dzogchungpa »

Nice. It looks like there are photos in that set of Chatral Rinpoche's Shiva Temple and the wall paintings of the Hindu deities in the Lhakhang referred to above, and if I'm not mistaken I spy a Sai Baba of Shirdi poster hanging on the wall and a picture of Shiva on the altar in front of the stupa as well.

:smile:
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
tepp01
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Re: Chatral Rinpoche's passing

Post by tepp01 »

Indeed, it was almost surreal to visit that wonderful place. Although we did not directly meet Rinpoche, his daughter conveyed to us his blessings and gifts, and also gave us permission to visit the shrines.

It was like looking into my own unconscious, seeing all my religious archetypes on display, kind of like a lucid dream.
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Re: Chatral Rinpoche's passing

Post by pemachophel »

I'm not sure if this has already been said, but the temple with its Hindu frescoes and lingams, etc. all belonged to the previous owner of the compound. Chatral Rinpoche simply never chose to remove them. I thought they were great.
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dzogchungpa
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Re: Chatral Rinpoche's passing

Post by dzogchungpa »

pemachophel wrote:I'm not sure if this has already been said, but the temple with its Hindu frescoes and lingams, etc. all belonged to the previous owner of the compound. Chatral Rinpoche simply never chose to remove them. I thought they were great.
OK, that makes sense. Do you happen to know if the picture of Shiva on the altar in front of the stupa also belonged to the previous owner?
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
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Re: Chatral Rinpoche's passing

Post by Adamantine »

It is well known that pretty much all the major Hindu gods are considered protectors of the Dharma in the Nyingma tradition. So Rinpoche displaying them in temples or on shrines has no contradiction to the tradition. Obviously he did not share the views of the majority Hindu population of Nepal or he would not have been constantly throwing a wrench in their mass sacrifices by liberating 100's of goats and sheep to graze happily on clean pastures in Yolmo from their near certain fates at the time of Dashain in the autumn. That said, I've learned that he was friends with some extraordinary yogis who had the outer appearance of sadhu babas. I've also learned from another wandering chodpa that sometimes these seemingly hindu sadhu babas inwardly are practitioners of Vajrayana Buddhadharma. So outer appearances don't really indicate much, and there is not much use in conjecturing on any outer appearances of images in shrines or styles of dress etc. unless of course one has an open wisdom eye to discern what is the inner content or intention. . . but then there wouldn't be any need or use for conjecture anyway!
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Re: Chatral Rinpoche's passing

Post by pemachophel »

Dzogchungpa,

Sorry, I'm not remembering that.
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tepp01
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Re: Chatral Rinpoche's passing

Post by tepp01 »

Seems there was also a story about the Shiva temple

Semo Saraswati-la told us something about it, that it was Rinpoche's temple, something like that
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dzogchungpa
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Re: Chatral Rinpoche's passing

Post by dzogchungpa »

Adamantine wrote:It is well known that pretty much all the major Hindu gods are considered protectors of the Dharma in the Nyingma tradition.
Is that true? E.g., are Vishnu and his avatars Rama and Krishna considered to be such protectors? I hadn't heard that before.
Adamantine wrote:So Rinpoche displaying them in temples or on shrines has no contradiction to the tradition.
I agree. :smile:
Adamantine wrote:I've learned that he was friends with some extraordinary yogis who had the outer appearance of sadhu babas. I've also learned from another wandering chodpa that sometimes these seemingly hindu sadhu babas inwardly are practitioners of Vajrayana Buddhadharma.
Interesting. Do you happen to know which particular Vajrayana practice or lineage these babas are connected to?

BTW, this is kind of getting off topic so perhaps the mods could split this thread?
Last edited by dzogchungpa on Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
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Re: Chatral Rinpoche's passing

Post by mañjughoṣamaṇi »

dzogchungpa wrote: Interesting. Do you happen to know what particular Vajrayana practice or lineage these babas are connected to?
Not sure about the babas in question, but Gendun Chophel reports meeting Indian tantrikas that were practicing Cakrasamvara in the 1930s.
སེམས་རྣམ་པར་གྲོལ་བར་བྱའི་ཕྱིར་བྱམས་པ་བསྒོམ་པར་བྱའོ།
“In order to completely liberate the mind, cultivate loving kindness.” -- Maitribhāvana Sūtra

"The bottom always falls out of the quest for the elementary. The irreducibly individual recedes like the horizon, as our analysis advances." -- Genesis, Michel Serres
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Re: Chatral Rinpoche's passing

Post by tepp01 »

Are Krishna and Rama mentioned in the Vimalaprabha literature (associated with the Kalachakra Tantra)?
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dzogchungpa
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Re: Chatral Rinpoche's passing

Post by dzogchungpa »

mañjughoṣamaṇi wrote:
dzogchungpa wrote: Interesting. Do you happen to know what particular Vajrayana practice or lineage these babas are connected to?
Not sure about the babas in question, but Gendun Chophel reports meeting Indian tantrikas that were practicing Cakrasamvara in the 1930s.
OK, thanks for the info. Do you have a reference?
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
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Hindu Deities in Tibetan Nyingma

Post by Thomas Amundsen »

This thread was split from Chatral Rinpoche's passing
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Re: Chatral Rinpoche's passing

Post by mañjughoṣamaṇi »

dzogchungpa wrote:
mañjughoṣamaṇi wrote:
dzogchungpa wrote: Interesting. Do you happen to know what particular Vajrayana practice or lineage these babas are connected to?
Not sure about the babas in question, but Gendun Chophel reports meeting Indian tantrikas that were practicing Cakrasamvara in the 1930s.
OK, thanks for the info. Do you have a reference?
Not with my books now, but I think it is referred to in the intro of Madman's Middle Way by Lopez.
སེམས་རྣམ་པར་གྲོལ་བར་བྱའི་ཕྱིར་བྱམས་པ་བསྒོམ་པར་བྱའོ།
“In order to completely liberate the mind, cultivate loving kindness.” -- Maitribhāvana Sūtra

"The bottom always falls out of the quest for the elementary. The irreducibly individual recedes like the horizon, as our analysis advances." -- Genesis, Michel Serres
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Re: Hindu Deities in Tibetan Nyingma

Post by Norwegian »

I recall Malcolm having mentioned before that Khunu Rinpoche also met Indian tantrikas that were practicing Cakrasamvara. I don't remember the source for this.
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Re: Hindu Deities in Tibetan Nyingma

Post by Losal Samten »

Also,

http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f= ... opa#p59340
Adamantine wrote:P.S. I am generally much more fond of Muktananda's own guru, Bhagawan Nityananda... he seemed a truly selfless saint, totally detached from any worldly concerns. And certainly a siddha. I spent a couple weeks in Ganeshpuri once and talked to many old students of his, they universally had great awe and devotion and gratitude for him, and all he had done for them- -there were many great stories... incidentally, apparently Karmapa mentioned something along the lines of Nityananda holding the southern lineage of Naropa.
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