Dharma Wheel

What are the differences and similarities between attainment of the atomic body and the rainbow body?

Rainbow bodies dont have mushroom clouds.

the atomic body is very very very very small.

SSJ3Gogeta wrote:the atomic body is very very very very small.

That doesn't explain much. That's the most basic simplistic understanding of what it is. A good question is e.g., how does one attain one versus the other?

humanpreta wrote:

SSJ3Gogeta wrote:the atomic body is very very very very small.

That doesn't explain much. That's the most basic simplistic understanding of what it is. A good question is e.g., how does one attain one versus the other?

It's not even a simplistic understanding. Atomic body is achieved through trekcho, the body dissolves into atoms and disappears. Rainbow body is achieved through thogal. You can read more about it in "The Practice Of Dzogchen" pages 82-85 (and before that too). There however atomic body is called rainbow body and rainbow body is called light body.

They are both just different terms to describe the high level development of the energy/light body. With an "energy" approach, the feeling refines from periodic heat/vibrations in parts of the body, to the full body, to full 24/7, then to the full body at a cellular level (atomic). With a "meditation" approach, often one does not notice the energy until it starts "radiating" beyond the body and at that point, it is already so "refined" that it "feels" like light.

Jeff wrote:They are both just different terms to describe the high level development of the energy/light body. With an "energy" approach, the feeling refines from periodic heat/vibrations in parts of the body, to the full body, to full 24/7, then to the full body at a cellular level (atomic). With a "meditation" approach, often one does not notice the energy until it starts "radiating" beyond the body and at that point, it is already so "refined" that it "feels" like light.

This has nothing to do with Dzogchen teaching on rainbow body.

Malcolm wrote:

Jeff wrote:They are both just different terms to describe the high level development of the energy/light body. With an "energy" approach, the feeling refines from periodic heat/vibrations in parts of the body, to the full body, to full 24/7, then to the full body at a cellular level (atomic). With a "meditation" approach, often one does not notice the energy until it starts "radiating" beyond the body and at that point, it is already so "refined" that it "feels" like light.

This has nothing to do with Dzogchen teaching on rainbow body.

In Dzogchen, is not the rainbow body something noticed/seen by another? One "reaches the point" where the radiating of light can be "seen". In Dzogchen, I had thought this was part of attaining Rigpa. (But, I apologize in advance, my specific knowledge of Dzogchen and terms is very limited.)

Jeff wrote: In Dzogchen, is not the rainbow body something noticed/seen by another? One "reaches the point" where the radiating of light can be "seen". In Dzogchen, I had thought this was part of attaining Rigpa. (But, I apologize in advance, my specific knowledge of Dzogchen and terms is very limited.)

Ordinary people cannot perceive rainbow body.

It is called "rainbow body" because the five elements revert to their original nature as the five wisdom lights. But this light is not photons -- it is called "light" but it is not physical light.

M

Malcolm wrote:

Jeff wrote: In Dzogchen, is not the rainbow body something noticed/seen by another? One "reaches the point" where the radiating of light can be "seen". In Dzogchen, I had thought this was part of attaining Rigpa. (But, I apologize in advance, my specific knowledge of Dzogchen and terms is very limited.)

Ordinary people cannot perceive rainbow body.

It is called "rainbow body" because the five elements revert to their original nature as the five wisdom lights. But this light is not photons -- it is called "light" but it is not physical light.

M

Agreed. That is why I put words like "seen" in quotes.

Seeing is a product (or conversion) of the mind. It would be better to say that it can be "felt" by one with an open heart. In other transitions it is described as "an outpouring of divine love".

Jeff wrote:

Malcolm wrote:

Jeff wrote: In Dzogchen, is not the rainbow body something noticed/seen by another? One "reaches the point" where the radiating of light can be "seen". In Dzogchen, I had thought this was part of attaining Rigpa. (But, I apologize in advance, my specific knowledge of Dzogchen and terms is very limited.)

Ordinary people cannot perceive rainbow body.

It is called "rainbow body" because the five elements revert to their original nature as the five wisdom lights. But this light is not photons -- it is called "light" but it is not physical light.

M

Agreed. That is why I put words like "seen" in quotes.

Seeing is a product (or conversion) of the mind. It would be better to say that it can be "felt" by one with an open heart. In other transitions it is described as "an outpouring of divine love".

Rainbow body, or the body of light is something very precise in Dzogchen teachings. It is not something felt by people with open hearts, etc.

It is a very specific result of a very specufic type of practice called tögal.

M

Malcolm wrote:
Rainbow body, or the body of light is something very precise in Dzogchen teachings. It is not something felt by people with open hearts, etc.

It is a very specific result of a very specufic type of practice called tögal.

M

All paths lead to the same place (though some may go farther).

Could you describe how it would be different? Does not a senior student feel light/divine love in the presence of someone who has attained Rigpa? (Divine love "feels" more like a combination of "peace" and "joy" than what we normally describe as romantic love.)

Jeff wrote: Could you describe how it would be different? Does not a senior student feel light/divine love in the presence of someone who has attained Rigpa? (Divine love "feels" more like a combination of "peace" and "joy" than what we normally describe as romantic love.)

No. Not at all. There is no "vibration" that you will feel emanating from someone who has genuine knowledge of the state of Dzogchen.

I suggest you read Dzogchen: The Self-Perfected State by Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, and become a little more educated about this subject.

I cannot educate you from the ground up. However, I can supply you with a couple of citations:

When a master teaches Dzogchen, he or she is trying to transmit a state of knowledge. The aim of the master is to awaken the student, opening that individual's consciousness to the primordial state. The master will not say, "Follow my rules and obey my precepts!" He will say, "Open your inner eye and observe yourself. Stop seeking an external lamp to enlighten you from outside, but light your own inner lamp. Thus the teachings will come to live in you, and you in the teachings."

Chogyal Namkhai Norbu. Dzogchen: The Self-Perfected State (Kindle Locations 179-182). Kindle Edition.

Ordinary beings are reborn without choice, conditioned by their karma into taking a body according to the causes they have accumulated over countless past lives. A totally realized being, on the other hand, is free from the cycle of conditioned cause and effect. But such a being may manifest a body through which others can have the possibility of being helped. The Body of Light, or the Light Body of a being who has realized the Great Transfer, are both phenomena which can be actively maintained so that those having the visionary clarity necessary for perceiving them can communicate with the fully realized individuals whose bodies find themselves in a dimension of pure light.

Chogyal Namkhai Norbu. The Crystal and the Way of Light: Sutra, Tantra and Dzogchen (pp. 162-163). Kindle Edition.

M

atomic rainbow body

that's a psychedelic band name if i ever heard one!

Malcolm wrote:

Jeff wrote: Could you describe how it would be different? Does not a senior student feel light/divine love in the presence of someone who has attained Rigpa? (Divine love "feels" more like a combination of "peace" and "joy" than what we normally describe as romantic love.)

No. Not at all. There is no "vibration" that you will feel emanating from someone who has genuine knowledge of the state of Dzogchen.

I suggest you read Dzogchen: The Self-Perfected State by Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, and become a little more educated about this subject.

I cannot educate you from the ground up. However, I can supply you with a couple of citations:

When a master teaches Dzogchen, he or she is trying to transmit a state of knowledge. The aim of the master is to awaken the student, opening that individual's consciousness to the primordial state. The master will not say, "Follow my rules and obey my precepts!" He will say, "Open your inner eye and observe yourself. Stop seeking an external lamp to enlighten you from outside, but light your own inner lamp. Thus the teachings will come to live in you, and you in the teachings."

Chogyal Namkhai Norbu. Dzogchen: The Self-Perfected State (Kindle Locations 179-182). Kindle Edition.

Ordinary beings are reborn without choice, conditioned by their karma into taking a body according to the causes they have accumulated over countless past lives. A totally realized being, on the other hand, is free from the cycle of conditioned cause and effect. But such a being may manifest a body through which others can have the possibility of being helped. The Body of Light, or the Light Body of a being who has realized the Great Transfer, are both phenomena which can be actively maintained so that those having the visionary clarity necessary for perceiving them can communicate with the fully realized individuals whose bodies find themselves in a dimension of pure light.

Chogyal Namkhai Norbu. The Crystal and the Way of Light: Sutra, Tantra and Dzogchen (pp. 162-163). Kindle Edition.

M

Thank you for your words. I believe the above is exactly what I have said in this thread and in the "Guru Yoga" thread. I have just attempted to describe it in exeriencial (and simple) terms.

I will also check out your book recommendation.

Jeff wrote:
Thank you for your words. I believe the above is exactly what I have said in this thread and in the "Guru Yoga" thread. I have just attempted to describe it in exeriencial (and simple) terms.

I will also check out your book recommendation.

Dzogchen is not something that you arrive to on your own. It depends on transmission from a qualified master.

M

Jeff wrote:

Malcolm wrote:

Jeff wrote: Could you describe how it would be different? Does not a senior student feel light/divine love in the presence of someone who has attained Rigpa? (Divine love "feels" more like a combination of "peace" and "joy" than what we normally describe as romantic love.)

No. Not at all. There is no "vibration" that you will feel emanating from someone who has genuine knowledge of the state of Dzogchen.

I suggest you read Dzogchen: The Self-Perfected State by Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, and become a little more educated about this subject.

I cannot educate you from the ground up. However, I can supply you with a couple of citations:

When a master teaches Dzogchen, he or she is trying to transmit a state of knowledge. The aim of the master is to awaken the student, opening that individual's consciousness to the primordial state. The master will not say, "Follow my rules and obey my precepts!" He will say, "Open your inner eye and observe yourself. Stop seeking an external lamp to enlighten you from outside, but light your own inner lamp. Thus the teachings will come to live in you, and you in the teachings."

Chogyal Namkhai Norbu. Dzogchen: The Self-Perfected State (Kindle Locations 179-182). Kindle Edition.

Ordinary beings are reborn without choice, conditioned by their karma into taking a body according to the causes they have accumulated over countless past lives. A totally realized being, on the other hand, is free from the cycle of conditioned cause and effect. But such a being may manifest a body through which others can have the possibility of being helped. The Body of Light, or the Light Body of a being who has realized the Great Transfer, are both phenomena which can be actively maintained so that those having the visionary clarity necessary for perceiving them can communicate with the fully realized individuals whose bodies find themselves in a dimension of pure light.

Chogyal Namkhai Norbu. The Crystal and the Way of Light: Sutra, Tantra and Dzogchen (pp. 162-163). Kindle Edition.

M

Thank you for your words. I believe the above is exactly what I have said in this thread and in the "Guru Yoga" thread. I have just attempted to describe it in exeriencial (and simple) terms.

I will also check out your book recommendation.

Then you believe incorrectly. You are limited by your experience. The level or realization you are describing is infinitesimal when compared to the realization needed to make the 5 elements of your body dissolve into light leaving nothing but nails and hair.

Some Masters have deliberately halted the rainbow body process to stay and teach humans in this realm.

humanpreta wrote:

SSJ3Gogeta wrote:the atomic body is very very very very small.

That doesn't explain much.

Thats because I was kidding.

You know how an atom is small.


Forget it.....

SSJ3Gogeta wrote:

humanpreta wrote:

SSJ3Gogeta wrote:the atomic body is very very very very small.

That doesn't explain much.

Thats because I was kidding.

You know how an atom is small.


Forget it.....

Oh.
Perhaps you should do more of it.....

Malcolm wrote:

Jeff wrote:
Thank you for your words. I believe the above is exactly what I have said in this thread and in the "Guru Yoga" thread. I have just attempted to describe it in exeriencial (and simple) terms.

I will also check out your book recommendation.

Dzogchen is not something that you arrive to on your own. It depends on transmission from a qualified master.

M

I fail to see the point of the above comment other than to politely say that I don't know what I am talking about.

My only comment is point out the very wise words that you posted earlier...

Chogyal Namkhai Norbu. Dzogchen: The Self-Perfected State (Kindle Locations 179-182). Kindle Edition.

But such a being may manifest a body through which others can have the possibility of being helped. The Body of Light, or the Light Body of a being who has realized the Great Transfer, are both phenomena which can be actively maintained so that those having the visionary clarity necessary for perceiving them can communicate with the fully realized individuals whose bodies find themselves in a dimension of pure light.

Or... Realized Dzogchen Masters are nice enough to hang around consciousness and provide Guru Yoga for those who have the ability to connect/receive.

One truth... Just different paths...