Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

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Matt J
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Matt J »

I have been surprised that people have been thinking Yeshi would take over. Am I the only one who watched My Reincarnation?
Danny wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:21 pm I walked away about 4 years ago, the writing was on the wall. I read this thread and I wonder what trying to guilt trip Yeshi into teaching when he’s stated over and over he has no interest is going to accomplish? Rinpoche gave everything you could ever want, and only wanted us to work with the transmission. The rest is just vacuum politics.
"The essence of meditation practice is to let go of all your expectations about meditation. All the qualities of your natural mind -- peace, openness, relaxation, and clarity -- are present in your mind just as it is. You don't have to do anything different. You don't have to shift or change your awareness. All you have to do while observing your mind is to recognize the qualities it already has."
--- Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche
Malcolm
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Malcolm »

Matt J wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:02 pm I have been surprised that people have been thinking Yeshi would take over. Am I the only one who watched My Reincarnation?
No, but many people missed the statement where Rinpoche stated the DC would splinter.
"Nonduality is merely a name;
that name does not exist."
—Kotalipa
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treehuggingoctopus
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by treehuggingoctopus »

Matt J wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:02 pm I have been surprised that people have been thinking Yeshi would take over. Am I the only one who watched My Reincarnation?
Danny wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:21 pm I walked away about 4 years ago, the writing was on the wall. I read this thread and I wonder what trying to guilt trip Yeshi into teaching when he’s stated over and over he has no interest is going to accomplish? Rinpoche gave everything you could ever want, and only wanted us to work with the transmission. The rest is just vacuum politics.
It is the final scenes. It is a picture with a happy ending, which, sadly, does not match what has happened. And yes, those in the know have known what will happen for years. For many of the rest, though, Yeshi still is a tulku anointed by the father to carry on his Great Work. It will take years for the recent revelations to sink in.
To offer care and affection to sentient beings
In desperate situations who lack protection
Brings just as much merit as the meditation
On emptiness with compassion as its core—
So it has been said by glorious Lord Atisha.

Chatral Sangye Dorje Rinpoche

If you cannot generate an altruistic mind, even extensive retreat will be of not much benefit.
Garchen Triptrul Rinpoche
climb-up
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by climb-up »

Malcolm wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:12 pm
Matt J wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:02 pm I have been surprised that people have been thinking Yeshi would take over. Am I the only one who watched My Reincarnation?
No, but many people missed the statement where Rinpoche stated the DC would splinter.
Oh, I guess it’s been a while.
I thought I remembered the thrust of the movie being that Yeshi had found the legitimacy and importance of ChNNs teachings and was stepping into his role as future successor. I remember him visiting the place where is former incarnation taught and also giving teachings and answering questions with his father.

I mean, obviously something changed since the movie was made, but that’s how I took the movie itself and the message it was (or seemed to me to be) sending.
javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by javier.espinoza.t »

climb-up wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 10:55 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:12 pm
Matt J wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:02 pm I have been surprised that people have been thinking Yeshi would take over. Am I the only one who watched My Reincarnation?
No, but many people missed the statement where Rinpoche stated the DC would splinter.
Oh, I guess it’s been a while.
I thought I remembered the thrust of the movie being that Yeshi had found the legitimacy and importance of ChNNs teachings and was stepping into his role as future successor. I remember him visiting the place where is former incarnation taught and also giving teachings and answering questions with his father.

I mean, obviously something changed since the movie was made, but that’s how I took the movie itself and the message it was (or seemed to me to be) sending.
no. i'm affraid nothing changed since ..
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Harimoo
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Harimoo »

Matt J wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:02 pm I have been surprised that people have been thinking Yeshi would take over. Am I the only one who watched My Reincarnation?
Or read "The Lamp That Enlightens Narrow Minds"...
Tata1
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Tata1 »

gendun wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:52 am
gendun wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:31 pm Elio thinks that we all need to take several breaths.
He was talking in general terms of course. Not addressing this thread. :smile:
Did he gave a statement or something?

But yes. We had a small meeting with local sangha to talk abou the meeting. Just to say that there where 500 people in that meeting, i wasnt one of them. Everyone who i talked to had different impressions if what happened. Some people where very touched and felt much love, others seems mad. 500 people with different kleshas and egos, we are a work in progress and we should try to be aware if that and relax a little
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Tata1 »

Harimoo wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:31 am
Matt J wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:02 pm I have been surprised that people have been thinking Yeshi would take over. Am I the only one who watched My Reincarnation?
Or read "The Lamp That Enlightens Narrow Minds"...
This
gendun
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by gendun »

Tata1 wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:10 pm
gendun wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:52 am
gendun wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:31 pm Elio thinks that we all need to take several breaths.
He was talking in general terms of course. Not addressing this thread. :smile:
Did he gave a statement or something?

But yes. We had a small meeting with local sangha to talk abou the meeting. Just to say that there where 500 people in that meeting, i wasnt one of them. Everyone who i talked to had different impressions if what happened. Some people where very touched and felt much love, others seems mad. 500 people with different kleshas and egos, we are a work in progress and we should try to be aware if that and relax a little
Precisely so. ( And no, he didn’t make a statement, it was just an observation).
PeterC
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by PeterC »

Tata1 wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:13 pm
Harimoo wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:31 am
Matt J wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:02 pm I have been surprised that people have been thinking Yeshi would take over. Am I the only one who watched My Reincarnation?
Or read "The Lamp That Enlightens Narrow Minds"...
This
ChNNr wanted all his students to read this book. After reading it I could understand why. The fact that his son was recognized by HH41ST as the reincarnation of the subject of the book makes the whole situation quite sad.
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Matt J
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Matt J »

I had the impression that he wasn't interested in the teachings as much as he was connecting with his father.
treehuggingoctopus wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:21 pm It is the final scenes. It is a picture with a happy ending, which, sadly, does not match what has happened. And yes, those in the know have known what will happen for years. For many of the rest, though, Yeshi still is a tulku anointed by the father to carry on his Great Work. It will take years for the recent revelations to sink in.
I haven't read it, but I'll take a look. Looking at the writing on the wall-- increased natural disasters, pandemics, the rise of populism, the fact that super secret teachings are given out widely--- these are not good signs.
Harimoo wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:31 am Or read "The Lamp That Enlightens Narrow Minds"...
"The essence of meditation practice is to let go of all your expectations about meditation. All the qualities of your natural mind -- peace, openness, relaxation, and clarity -- are present in your mind just as it is. You don't have to do anything different. You don't have to shift or change your awareness. All you have to do while observing your mind is to recognize the qualities it already has."
--- Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Tata1 »

PeterC wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:58 pm
Tata1 wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:13 pm
Harimoo wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:31 am

Or read "The Lamp That Enlightens Narrow Minds"...
This
ChNNr wanted all his students to read this book. After reading it I could understand why. The fact that his son was recognized by HH41ST as the reincarnation of the subject of the book makes the whole situation quite sad.
Im not sure i understand what you mean
PeterC
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by PeterC »

Tata1 wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:50 pm
PeterC wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:58 pm
Tata1 wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:13 pm

This
ChNNr wanted all his students to read this book. After reading it I could understand why. The fact that his son was recognized by HH41ST as the reincarnation of the subject of the book makes the whole situation quite sad.
Im not sure i understand what you mean
Which part - why he wanted us to read it, or why it’s sad when viewed in context?
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Tata1 »

PeterC wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:06 pm
Tata1 wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:50 pm
PeterC wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:58 pm

ChNNr wanted all his students to read this book. After reading it I could understand why. The fact that his son was recognized by HH41ST as the reincarnation of the subject of the book makes the whole situation quite sad.
Im not sure i understand what you mean
Which part - why he wanted us to read it, or why it’s sad when viewed in context?
Second part
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by DechenDave »

Tata1 wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:13 pm
Harimoo wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:31 am
Matt J wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:02 pm I have been surprised that people have been thinking Yeshi would take over. Am I the only one who watched My Reincarnation?
Or read "The Lamp That Enlightens Narrow Minds"...
This
Can you or PeterC elaborate a little?
Malcolm
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Malcolm »

PeterC wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:06 pm
Tata1 wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:50 pm
PeterC wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:58 pm

ChNNr wanted all his students to read this book. After reading it I could understand why. The fact that his son was recognized by HH41ST as the reincarnation of the subject of the book makes the whole situation quite sad.
Im not sure i understand what you mean
Which part - why he wanted us to read it, or why it’s sad when viewed in context?
Khyentse Chokyi Wangchuk was a casualty of Derge Tulku politics, and still is, as one can see from Orgyen Thobgyal's less than kind remarks about him and the manner in which the retainers of Jamyang Khyentse Chokyi Lodo actively obstructed Norbu Rinpoche's access to the latter in Sikkim. Norbu Rinpoche wanted people to understand these circumstances because they explain a lot about the way Norbu Rinpoche's own career and teaching progressed, as well as the legacy that Yeshi was to inherit.

There are many instructive lessons here concerning the vicissitudes of the the tulku system, especially when incarnations are recognized outside of the Tibetan cultural sphere. It is well know that my personal opinion is that the practice of recognizing incarnations does not port particularly well in non-Tibetan cultural spheres.
"Nonduality is merely a name;
that name does not exist."
—Kotalipa
javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by javier.espinoza.t »

Matt J wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:02 pm I have been surprised that people have been thinking Yeshi would take over. Am I the only one who watched My Reincarnation?
Danny wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:21 pm I walked away about 4 years ago, the writing was on the wall. I read this thread and I wonder what trying to guilt trip Yeshi into teaching when he’s stated over and over he has no interest is going to accomplish? Rinpoche gave everything you could ever want, and only wanted us to work with the transmission. The rest is just vacuum politics.
apparently people kept creating problems for themselves, the master and the teaching; this was one of the main points in the movie and Kyentse Wangchuk namthar. i would be surprised if anyone where whiling to asume the reaponsability of dealing with that, not just YN.

i really don't think YN in due time won't teach, but i think it cannot be in the idc if it keeps up in the same way it has being; so it would be elsewhere or in a kind of idc 2.0 or whatever.

master said that atiyoga ain't a religion, philosophy, etc. and that one doesn't need to be buddhist, nor religious, etc. for putting it into practice. so i'm not afraid of what mr. landsberg and so many sees.

maybe i'm wrong, but i'm not speaking from a hopefull view. it's just how i see it.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Mantrik »

Santi Maha Sangha means just that, not an institutional imposition.
http://www.khyung.com ཁྲོཾ

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by amanitamusc »

javier.espinoza.t wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:24 pm
Matt J wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:02 pm I have been surprised that people have been thinking Yeshi would take over. Am I the only one who watched My Reincarnation?
Danny wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:21 pm I walked away about 4 years ago, the writing was on the wall. I read this thread and I wonder what trying to guilt trip Yeshi into teaching when he’s stated over and over he has no interest is going to accomplish? Rinpoche gave everything you could ever want, and only wanted us to work with the transmission. The rest is just vacuum politics.
apparently people kept creating problems for themselves, the master and the teaching; this was one of the main points in the movie and Kyentse Wangchuk namthar. i would be surprised if anyone where whiling to asume the reaponsability of dealing with that, not just YN.

i really don't think YN in due time won't teach, but i think it cannot be in the idc if it keeps up in the same way it has being; so it would be elsewhere or in a kind of idc 2.0 or whatever.
What problems are people in DC causing? You keep saying people in DC are not doing right and this is why Yeshi won't teach.
As far as Yeshi teaching dzogchen in the future,don't hold kumbakha to long waiting for that.
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treehuggingoctopus
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by treehuggingoctopus »

javier.espinoza.t wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:24 pmapparently people kept creating problems for themselves, the master and the teaching; this was one of the main points in the movie and Kyentse Wangchuk namthar. i would be surprised if anyone where whiling to asume the reaponsability of dealing with that, not just YN.
You realise that you are giving Yeshi not only special but superspecial treatment, don't you?

What the namthar reveals is nothing new. Every bigger institution is rife with such problems, and many are much, much worse off than the DC is. And yet qualified teachers -- or those anointed by the master -- do mostly assume responsibility when it is needed precisely because it is needed.

So there has been gossiping, backbiting, complaining, plotting and scheming and intestine feuding in the DC. Well, tough luck. It is everywhere. Has it been particularly bad for Yeshi? Well, it cannot have been that bad since he is still literally idolised by many who still refuse to believe that he has rejected the teacher's mantle.

If he does not want to have anything to do with the DC, fine. But saying that it is no wonder he wants to steer clear of us since we have wronged him so much is just a tad too much.
To offer care and affection to sentient beings
In desperate situations who lack protection
Brings just as much merit as the meditation
On emptiness with compassion as its core—
So it has been said by glorious Lord Atisha.

Chatral Sangye Dorje Rinpoche

If you cannot generate an altruistic mind, even extensive retreat will be of not much benefit.
Garchen Triptrul Rinpoche
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