Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Malcolm
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Malcolm »

climb-up wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:16 am
Malcolm wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:10 am
PeterC wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:01 am

Malcolm, when you say following the klong sal, do you mean working through rushens semdzins trekchod etc according to his termas, or was he talking about some more specific sequence of practising his termas?
He meant the klong gsal teachings in general.
But unfortunately most of those teachings are closed to many of us. For someone as bad of a practitioner as myself it probably doesn’t make a difference, I think the previous vase and ancillary could keep me busy for a lifetime, but do you see a path forward to the Longsal teachings who didn’t receive them while ChNN was alive?

I’m certainly not trying to call you out but as a Lama who gives wang and DI yourself, wouldn’t you (or someone with similar training and experience to you) be qualified to pass on Longsal practices? (Apologies if my heads sonfar up my ass about authority that I’ve missed the Dzogchen point!)
My job is the 17 tantras.
"Nonduality is merely a name;
that name does not exist."
—Kotalipa
Malcolm
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Malcolm »

PeterC wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:26 am
Fa Dao wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:44 am ok...so..I am just going to toss this out there and see where it goes..I am not good at organizing things so if someone wants to try and run with this, be my guest..
As people here know Rinpoche gave a transmission for Vajra Bridge of Longde which he said is the essentials of it. From my research there are 2 volumes in the Nyingma Kama that are devoted to the Vajra Bridge teachings/practices, and commentaries. Volumes 18 and 19 in one version and 32 and 33 in another.
So what I was thinking is 2 pronged...maybe a group of us could find a Nyinma Lama willing to give us the transmission for these 2 volumes..perhaps over skype or zoom (or something like that) and do it over time..for example: 1 hour a week or so until it is completed. And then we could try and find a translator that would be willing to translate it all into English..I would be willing to chip in whatever I could for a project like this to donate to a Lama and pay a translator...just want to see if there would be any interest from any of Rinpoches students for this....
Thoughts?
Fa Dao - I think if you wanted to practice Longde in ChNNr’s lineage then you’d want the lung of the first volume of the Longsal terma cycle, which contains ChNNr’s upadesha on the vajra bridge. (Correct me if I’m wrong about the content of that.)

Could I suggest a slight variation on your plan. We track down members of the DC who have received the lungs of each of the Longsal teachings - and since they were given at different times in different places, that means a group of people, it’s highly unlikely one person will have received them all - and we organize a mass lung of the whole lot. People can seek out explanations afterwards, but we ensure that the reading transmissions have been given. The only requirement to give a lung of a text is that you’ve received it from someone who has received it. So we don’t get into the contentious question of DI, but we do what we can to ensure the termas are propagated.

I would also be willing to contribute to the costs of this.
They would need to be able to read Tibetan and give the lung in that language.
"Nonduality is merely a name;
that name does not exist."
—Kotalipa
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treehuggingoctopus
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by treehuggingoctopus »

MiphamFan wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:01 am It's sad but personally, while practising ChNN's teachings daily still, I am seeking teachings from other lamas too. I definitely need guidance on the path, SMS teachers are a bit ahead on the path of me, but I'm not sure how far they can lead me.

Ati Guru Yoga + SoV till I die but in the meantime I need teachings too.
Which is another reason why inviting other teachers would help the DC. Before any of our practitioners brace up and claim their mantles, there still is the need of really reliable guidance for most of us. The IDC may just as well acknowledge the fact that most of us will have been taking teachings from other lineages for some time. More than that, our Slovakian and Czech centres (and possibly other lings as well) have been inviting other teachers for years, so in some parts of the world that would be nothing new.
To offer care and affection to sentient beings
In desperate situations who lack protection
Brings just as much merit as the meditation
On emptiness with compassion as its core—
So it has been said by glorious Lord Atisha.

Chatral Sangye Dorje Rinpoche

If you cannot generate an altruistic mind, even extensive retreat will be of not much benefit.
Garchen Triptrul Rinpoche
PeterC
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by PeterC »

Malcolm wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:19 pm They would need to be able to read Tibetan and give the lung in that language.
If after all these years the DC can’t pull together a group of students who can read Tibetan, then the writing really is on the wall
dharmafootsteps
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by dharmafootsteps »

PeterC wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:07 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:19 pm They would need to be able to read Tibetan and give the lung in that language.
If after all these years the DC can’t pull together a group of students who can read Tibetan, then the writing really is on the wall
Of course it can.
Malcolm
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Malcolm »

PeterC wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:07 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:19 pm They would need to be able to read Tibetan and give the lung in that language.
If after all these years the DC can’t pull together a group of students who can read Tibetan, then the writing really is on the wall
The question is not can they, the question is, will they?
"Nonduality is merely a name;
that name does not exist."
—Kotalipa
Danny
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Danny »

Malcolm wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:17 pm
PeterC wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:07 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:19 pm They would need to be able to read Tibetan and give the lung in that language.
If after all these years the DC can’t pull together a group of students who can read Tibetan, then the writing really is on the wall
The question is not can they, the question is, will they?
Master Norbu wanted us to work together, collaborate. I’ve seen him get pretty wrathful with “advanced” students thinking helping the jr’s was a little beneath them, they had the “attitude” that they only wanted to hang around with other advanced students.
javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by javier.espinoza.t »

the gakyil sent an email, there will be an official letter (not just one individual's perception) and a bigger meeting. patience so this arrives at the right time.
ania wisniewska
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by ania wisniewska »

:heart: :hi:
Malcolm
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Malcolm »

javier.espinoza.t wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:48 pm the gakyil sent an email, there will be an official letter (not just one individual's perception) and a bigger meeting. patience so this arrives at the right time.
As far as I am concerned, since Rinpoche left no instructions, no one can speak for Rinpoche.
"Nonduality is merely a name;
that name does not exist."
—Kotalipa
javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by javier.espinoza.t »

Malcolm wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:17 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:48 pm the gakyil sent an email, there will be an official letter (not just one individual's perception) and a bigger meeting. patience so this arrives at the right time.
As far as I am concerned, since Rinpoche left no instructions, no one can speak for Rinpoche.
i agree.

there was a good amount of people from the organization there, so is ok to expect an organizational view.
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heart
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by heart »

Dear all,

With this email, I want to inform you that the letter by Steven Landsberg that he sent recently has no relation to the International Gakyils communication - it is a private interpretation and reflections of Steven as he wrote in his letter.

Meanwhile, we received some requests related to the content of the meeting we had with Yeshi Namkhai on August 14 and now we are preparing a communication related to this matter.

We all know that it is indispensable to communicate and try to be on the same page before discussing how to go on now. Probably, we will have a bigger meeting or a webcast to share what we have heard from Yeshi. Since the preparation of such meetings takes some time, we ask you to wait for a while. We will inform you about the next steps as soon as we are ready.



Kind regards,

Anton Rutkovskyi

Red Gakyil
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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Mantrik
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Mantrik »

heart wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 6:14 pm
Dear all,

With this email, I want to inform you that the letter by Steven Landsberg that he sent recently has no relation to the International Gakyils communication - it is a private interpretation and reflections of Steven as he wrote in his letter.

Meanwhile, we received some requests related to the content of the meeting we had with Yeshi Namkhai on August 14 and now we are preparing a communication related to this matter.

We all know that it is indispensable to communicate and try to be on the same page before discussing how to go on now. Probably, we will have a bigger meeting or a webcast to share what we have heard from Yeshi. Since the preparation of such meetings takes some time, we ask you to wait for a while. We will inform you about the next steps as soon as we are ready.



Kind regards,

Anton Rutkovskyi

Red Gakyil
I think Yeshi should webcast, record a speech or write to the membership. All this third party communication just muddies things. It is Kafkaesque to hold meetings with an assortment of DC folk who do not represent the whole organisation and deliver a message intended for us to be 'cascaded' down somehow, in 'a communication' which again is not from the source.

I think, as Malcolm said, for the future of the organisation nobody speaks for ChNN, only for themselves or the group they are asked to represent. Only a new head could speak for the DC.
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Malcolm
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Malcolm »

Mantrik wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 6:32 pm Only a new head could speak for the DC.
Yeshi has abdicated this role completely. So, the DC is headless. Even then, not everyone would have followed Yeshi.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Mantrik »

Malcolm wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:22 pm
Mantrik wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 6:32 pm Only a new head could speak for the DC.
Yeshi has abdicated this role completely. So, the DC is headless. Even then, not everyone would have followed Yeshi.
Yes, at risk of a Hydra-headed existence rather than a tree with branches bearing fruit.
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Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
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Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by gendun »

Elio thinks that we all need to take several breaths.
Malcolm
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Malcolm »

Mantrik wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:27 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:22 pm
Mantrik wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 6:32 pm Only a new head could speak for the DC.
Yeshi has abdicated this role completely. So, the DC is headless. Even then, not everyone would have followed Yeshi.
Yes, at risk of a Hydra-headed existence rather than a tree with branches bearing fruit.
Oh, it won't be like that. It will be just the same as any other Dzogchen lineage, not a tree, but more rhizomatic, all connected to the original rhizome. Hierarchy has no place in this scheme, other than to administer property and collect dues. But Garab Dorje never said, "start and organization and collect dues; set up copy right infringement protocols; trademark names;..."
"Nonduality is merely a name;
that name does not exist."
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by treehuggingoctopus »

Mantrik wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 6:32 pmI think Yeshi should webcast, record a speech or write to the membership. All this third party communication just muddies things. It is Kafkaesque to hold meetings with an assortment of DC folk who do not represent the whole organisation and deliver a message intended for us to be 'cascaded' down somehow, in 'a communication' which again is not from the source.
:good:
To offer care and affection to sentient beings
In desperate situations who lack protection
Brings just as much merit as the meditation
On emptiness with compassion as its core—
So it has been said by glorious Lord Atisha.

Chatral Sangye Dorje Rinpoche

If you cannot generate an altruistic mind, even extensive retreat will be of not much benefit.
Garchen Triptrul Rinpoche
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Mantrik
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Mantrik »

Malcolm wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:34 pm
Mantrik wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:27 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:22 pm

Yeshi has abdicated this role completely. So, the DC is headless. Even then, not everyone would have followed Yeshi.
Yes, at risk of a Hydra-headed existence rather than a tree with branches bearing fruit.
Oh, it won't be like that. It will be just the same as any other Dzogchen lineage, not a tree, but more rhizomatic, all connected to the original rhizome. Hierarchy has no place in this scheme, other than to administer property and collect dues. But Garab Dorje never said, "start and organization and collect dues; set up copy right infringement protocols; trademark names;..."
That's a refreshing perspective I welcome.
http://www.khyung.com ཁྲོཾ

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)
Danny
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Danny »

Mantrik wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:09 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:34 pm
Mantrik wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:27 pm

Yes, at risk of a Hydra-headed existence rather than a tree with branches bearing fruit.
Oh, it won't be like that. It will be just the same as any other Dzogchen lineage, not a tree, but more rhizomatic, all connected to the original rhizome. Hierarchy has no place in this scheme, other than to administer property and collect dues. But Garab Dorje never said, "start and organization and collect dues; set up copy right infringement protocols; trademark names;..."
That's a refreshing perspective I welcome.
I walked away about 4 years ago, the writing was on the wall. I read this thread and I wonder what trying to guilt trip Yeshi into teaching when he’s stated over and over he has no interest is going to accomplish? Rinpoche gave everything you could ever want, and only wanted us to work with the transmission. The rest is just vacuum politics.
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