Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

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treehuggingoctopus
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by treehuggingoctopus »

tinylocusta wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:22 pm
treehuggingoctopus wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:16 pm
tinylocusta wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:02 amThe traditional explanation is that building up your visualization skills through Mahayoga, it makes it very easy to you to practice the instant transformation of Anuyoga as the mandalas appear clearly and with little effort. And through the practice of Anuyoga, it is easier to understand the meaning of self-perfection when you are introduced to it in Atiyoga. But we know it's not the only way.


I have yet to meet a Nyingma lama who would teach it this way. In my experience, all transformation in Nyingma is Anu, according to Rinpoche's terminology, even if they call it Maha.
They seem quite distinct to me, even though they are not labelled as such. Whenever there is a mandala built gradually from the elements etc., you have Mahayoga. Some sadhanas even speak of "Mahamudra" at the end. When you have instant manifestation, usually it means Anuyoga.

As to the tradition of practicing the three inner tantras together, it is omnipresent in Nyingma. Yes, the Nyinghtigs exist, but they are always being practiced in the context of Vajrayana, and some of them have more Mahayoga than Anuyoga.

To give you an example, here's a fragment of Dudjom Rinpoche's and Beru Khyentse Rinpoche's commentary to Longchenpa's chos bzhi rin chen phreng ba:
The reason why a maha-yoga development stage must be conjoined with an anu- or ati-yoga practice is as follows. If you have not meditated to at least a certain extent on visualizing Guru Rinpoche or some other deity and reciting his mantra, you will have nothing upon which to base your practice of an anu-yoga completing stage. You will lack a context within which to meditate upon the energy-system and voidness. Likewise if you have not trained yourself with a development stage practice of deliberately visualizing a deity and reciting a mantra, you will have no background or basis enabling you in ati-yoga to experience everything spontaneously as a perfect mandala, deity and so forth. Thus the three inner tantras are not practiced separately. (p. 22)
All the Dudjom Tersar sadhanas I am familiar with are Anu, in DC terms. In the book which you quote Maha and Anu do not correspond to what Rinpoche means by Maha and Anu at all. In Dudjom Rinpoche's commentary (and possibly in Dudjom Tersar in general, at least in my experience), Anu means practices of channels, drops and winds, and Maha self-visualisation as a deity. The method of visualisation is instantaneous. Same is true in Byangter (even lower tantra practices there feature instant self-visualisation).
The yoga of the energy-channels and so forth is the foremost feature of anu-yoga. It is also practised in ati-yoga, just as :lti- is in maha-yoga. In fact, all three inner tantras are mutually pervasive, incorporating aspects of one another. A certain practice is classified as maha-, anu- or ati-yoga in reference to what is emphasized or is oremost in it. The prominent feature of a maha-yoga practice is the development stage, that of anu-yoga is the completing stage, while that of ati-yoga or Dzogchen is the cultivation of the realization of the void sphere of all things. Each of these practices, however, has development (ma.ha), completing (anu) and Dzogchen (ati) stages. For the purpose of theoretical exposition, it is easier to understand if these three inner tantras are treated separately.

For example, in a maha-yoga practice you begin with meditation on voidness, seeing everything purified into the void. From this state arise exuberant waves of the motivation of compassion. This is called "single-pointed concentration appearing everywhere." When the unity of voidness and compassion is established through such meditation, it is called "single-minded concentration on suchness."

In this state the arisal of pure awareness is practiced through meditation on a visualized seed syllable such as "HUM." Rays of light proceed from it, purifying the entire environmenr of samsara and the beings within it. All are realized to be of the nature of voidness. Through such a process the world becomes a Buddha-field or the divine realm of a meditational deity, buildings become the celestial palace of the deity and your mind becomes the seed syllable. If this syllable is HUM, then at the next stage it becomes a vajra or lightning-sceptre of the enlightened motive of bodhichitta. From this vajra, light proceeds and that in turn becomes the meditational deity, for instance Vajrasattva.
The above outline of Mahayoga would be valid for any Longsal dakini practice.
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Malcolm
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Malcolm »

tinylocusta wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:22 pm
They seem quite distinct to me, even though they are not labelled as such. Whenever there is a mandala built gradually from the elements etc., you have Mahayoga. Some sadhanas even speak of "Mahamudra" at the end. When you have instant manifestation, usually it means Anuyoga.
Anuyoga has two systems: one gradual, one instant. Mahāmudra in Nyingma does not mean the same thing as mahāmudra in the gsar ma tantras. But in any case, ChNN affirmed countless times that the result of the two stages and the result of Dzogchen were the same.
As to the tradition of practicing the three inner tantras together, it is omnipresent in Nyingma. Yes, the Nyinghtigs exist, but they are always being practiced in the context of Vajrayana, and some of them have more Mahayoga than Anuyoga.
And in Dzogchen Community. For example, the medium thun, which combines the system of Mahāyoga with the system of Anuyoga and the system of Atiyoga.

You are confusing "Nying thig," like klong chen snying thig as a fashionable name, with the term snying thig, for example Vima snying thig, which is strictly about the utterly secret unsurpassed cycle of the man ngag sde tantras. They are not the same thing at all.

As for Yeshi, I'd prefer not to speculate about Him or His intentions.
You are free to take anyone you like as a teacher, and devotionally capitalizing the indefinite pronouns when referencing them. It's fine with me. Weird to do so, but whatever.

We don't need to speculate. Yeshe made his attitude towards the broader community, as well as Buddhadharma, clear as a bell.

The criteria for following a teacher are clearly laid out in the Dzogchen tantras and elsewhere. ChNN hit every one of those marks. Why would I need another teacher? ChNN was a perfect teacher, who I studied and practiced under for 26 years. I don't need another Dzogchen teacher in this life, other than the ones I already have studied with. You have a different idea, and that is your choice. No one is criticizing you or anyone else, or and telling you or anyone else that you or anyone else cannot take Yeshe as a guru. That's strictly between you and him. Any criticism offered to you here concern your deficiencies of learning, evident in your bombastic pronouncements and misstatements of fact.
My aim writing here was to ask people to reflect before using offensive words against Him. I had honestly thought these were accidental and that people would reflect and adjust their attitude. But it is obvious now that at least in some cases it was not intentional but done on purpose so basically all that I wrote was in vain.
No one here wrote any thing offensive about Yeshe Namkhai. Not one word. The only person offended here is you. And you decided to be offended, then self-righteous, as if you have any business trying to condition other people at all. This is all on you, not on us.
Or worse, maybe provoked even more slander.
There is no slander here. No one is saying that Yeshe is a bad or evil person, or that by choosing to leave the community he did something inherently wrong. His actions certainly confuse a lot of people. But he is just an ordinary person in a human body with human problems, just like everyone else. Some people are disappointed he did not don the mantle. Personally, I could care less. But I do think his little dance with the community is harming the community, and that he ought to be in or be out, rather than one foot in the door and one foot out.
I prefer to follow the advice of my teachers and be careful about the consequences of my actions and I feel it will be better if I don't post here anymore because the result seem to be more negative than positive. Again, I'm very sorry if I gave rise to any negative emotions. We are all Vajra brothers and sisters, and I sincerely apologize to all of you.
You should worry about your own negative emotions, since that is what caused you to post your missives here in the first place. But since you don't believe in karma, it doesn't matter. There are no consequences to your actions at all. Bye.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Virgo »

Malcolm wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:54 pm In fact, ChNN taught Dzogchen in an utterly traditional way, as anyone who has extensively studied the length and breadth of Dzogchen teachings knows, and has not fallen for the bullshit propaganda some people in DC repeatedly drone, which mainly derives from an incorrect understanding of the Kun byed rGyal po and other sems sde texts. ChNN repeatedly stated that sems sde concerned the teaching on the basis, and that in essence, it was about khregs chod. If one does not understand that basis, one can do Ati guru yoga and sing the SOV until the cows come home, but it isn't really Dzogchen practice. Authentic teachers of Dzogchen spend years emphasizing the teaching on the basis to their students until they get it right. ChNN was exactly that kind of teacher.
This.

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by fckw »

Malcolm wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:54 pm This is why he taught the way _all_ Nyingma teachers do, extensively teaching on gzhi khregs chod combined with anuyoga transformation practices until people are ready to practice the path, lhun grub thogal, which almost no one does seriously.
Just to understand this sentence - what do you mean, "almost no one does seriously"? What's lacking here, right effort, or right view (and thus understanding of the path), or anything else? In what sense do you mean people are not ready to practice lhund drup thogal?
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by oldbob »

Dear all and All,

Yes, we are all equal Vajra brothers and sisters equally possessing the Buddha seed. We should show respect to everyone including all who are able to tightly control what is taught, as Dzogchen, and how it is taught to the Dzogchen Community.

It is a little like the story of the blind wise men who were sent by a king to a foreign land to find out what the famous “elephant” was.

Each brought back a different report to the king depending on which part of the elephant that they touched.

Each was correct in their own dimension. And so, the elephant was many things to many people. The king wisely allowed all the different views to exist peacefully together.

Then, in an attempt to seize power and wealth there were formed the cults of the “tail” and the cult of the “trunk” and the cult of the “legs,” etc. Then some of these aggressive cults slandered each other and fought many battles using magic and even went to legal court and even real war to prove the supremacy of their historical views, and to hold on to power and wealth by limiting what could be taught, and by whom, about the qualities of the elephant.

And so today – right now – we have power people in the administration of the IDC claiming they are limiting who can teach what within the IDC so as to preserve, “The purity of Transmission.”

What these administrators are doing is completely different than what ChNN taught.

Please read the actual words of ChNN as to who can teach as published in the two communications of 2016.


ChNN went beyond all limits and miraculously taught all the different philosophical views at different times, and miraculously at the same time, to different individuals based on working with circumstances. All the 7 billion + different viewpoints are resolved in the timeless time of “Instant Presence.” All the intellectual viewpoints are resolved in the “Single Point” of Dzogchen.

In the great scheme of things, there is no problem, and never was. The elephant has no concern as to how it is described.

What matters is who is allowed to teach what from within the Dzogchen Community and if there is equal and easy and regular access to Direct Introduction and Lung Authorizations through official access to all lineage holders.


Equal access to the Digital Archives and Transcript Archives of ChNN is important because these are the real actual Dzogchen Teachings of ChNN, as taught by ChNN – with no political editing or interpretation.

Then – through practice, we all may become the Elephant and there are no more questions.


Recognizing that human life is like a shooting star and recognizing that the truths of impermanence, karma, and old age, sickness and death apply to all - maybe we can collaborate and try to preserve the complete Transmission Lineage of ChNN, and make access to the Transmission Lineage equal and easy for all.

Perhaps reminded of the unlimited kindness and Generosity of ChNN – where no one was turned away from any Teaching - we can collaborate and make the Teachings easily accessible to all who seek them.

The Transmission Lineage of ChNN included regular and easy Direct INtroductions and Lung Reading Authorizations.

This is doable NOW through collaboration – inside and outside of the IDC.

Please read the actual words of ChNN as to who can teach and what his children were allowed to teach.

In sum the words of ChNN state: anyone who has completed a practice can teach that practice; the SMS Instructors are not allowed to teach everything just because they are SMS Instructors and his children are allowed to teach only what he has taught them.

https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.p ... 19#p598719

ob

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by dharmafootsteps »

oldbob wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:46 pm And so today – right now – we have power people in the administration of the IDC claiming they are limiting who can teach what within the IDC so as to preserve, “The purity of Transmission.”

What these administrators are doing is completely different than what ChNN taught.
Who’s been limited from teaching, and by whom? I’m not aware of any such situation.

“power people in the administration of the IDC” refers to the International Gakyil? Did someone offer to teach and they were blocked by the IG?

The IG have been clear that they don’t feel they have any authority to be deciding things like who can and cannot teach.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Malcolm »

fckw wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:31 pm
Malcolm wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:54 pm This is why he taught the way _all_ Nyingma teachers do, extensively teaching on gzhi khregs chod combined with anuyoga transformation practices until people are ready to practice the path, lhun grub thogal, which almost no one does seriously.
Just to understand this sentence - what do you mean, "almost no one does seriously"? What's lacking here, right effort, or right view (and thus understanding of the path), or anything else? In what sense do you mean people are not ready to practice lhund drup thogal?
In general, people should not practice thogal until they have understood the view, khregs chod, and stabilized it very firmly. That view is not an intellectual view, but is based on the experience of the nature of the mind during empowerment. That experiential view should be very stable. ChNN taught thogal very infrequently, largely because it is clear he had doubts about people's stability in the view.

Now, of course, there is no one who will continue those transmissions in the DC unless or until something changes.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by oldbob »

The restrictions of the IG are listed in the FAQ section of their website.

When you combine these with the restrictions of the "Guidelines" of the ATIF you get the resultant limitations of the IDC that are the current rules as to who can teach what in the IDC.

This was sent out to the IG last March - with no reply yet.


___________________________________________________________-
Dear All and,

In a recent FAQ asking about "How can I get transmission or Direct Introduction?" the IG is answering:

"After Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche passed away in 2018, his son Yeshi Namkhai decided to give a Direct Introduction in April 2020 in Merigar West for new people who are interested in the Dzogchen teaching, but due to the Coronavirus pandemic, the event was postponed for an undefined period."

The question does not/not ask, "How can I get transmission or get Direct Introduction from YeshI Namkhai?" Instead, by providing the answer that was given in the FAQ, the implication is that ONLY / ONLY Yeshi Namkhai is (according to the IG) qualified to give transmission or Direct Introduction. This is not true. Where does this false fact come from? To the best of my knowledge, ChNNR NEVER indicated this in writing or by voice. This official IG FAQ answer may be in opposition to the spirit and letter of the Statutes of the IDC and AYIF.

Also, this new transmission and Direct Introduction Guideline appears to be directly in opposition to the guidelines provided in the two communications of 2016 as to who can teach. In the two communications of 2016, it is clearly stated that anyone who has accomplished a practice can teach that practice. These criteria were not limited to SMS instructors but were applied to everyone. Also, the two communications of 2016 did not state at all that Transmission and Direct introduction were not included in the permissions given in the 2016 communications. Therefore Transmission and Direct Introduction are included and are allowed to be taught by " anyone who has accomplished that practice."

If the IG or the ATIF has an agenda relating to who can give transmission or Direct Introduction, where that comes from ChNNR, or elsewhere, they should share that agenda soonest with the entire IDC membership. Otherwise, the appearance is that management is roadblocking the possibility of receiving transmission and Direct Introduction from 1) realized students, 2} from other Dzogchen Masters, or 3) from the spirit of ChNNR via the World-wide Transmission of the Guru Yoga of Garab Dorje, on the web, as was done by ChNNR at many times before.

Lung transmission was previously granted by ChNNR, on the web, in time-delayed webcasts, because the webcasts were heard at a delayed time from when ChNNR spoke. Allowing Lung Authorization readings from the recordings of ChNNR would allow newcomers to obtain these permissions and all of the privileges of access that come with these permissions.

Please explain. Thank you,

Bob Kragen
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Tongnyid Dorje »

oldbob wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:08 pm or 3) from the spirit of ChNNR via the World-wide Transmission of the Guru Yoga of Garab Dorje, on the web, as was done by ChNNR at many times before.
Seriously? from the spirit of ChNNR?
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Malcolm »

Tongnyid Dorje wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:13 pm
oldbob wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:08 pm or 3) from the spirit of ChNNR via the World-wide Transmission of the Guru Yoga of Garab Dorje, on the web, as was done by ChNNR at many times before.
Seriously? from the spirit of ChNNR?
Oh, it's going to get a whole lot weirder then this, strange people will start hanging out shingles saying they were authorized by ChNN in dreams and visions to be Dzogchen teachers. And since there is freedom of religion in most places in the "first" world, no one will be able to stop them.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Virgo »

Well I was thinking perhaps in the Dream DC we could have a more scientific bent, but also perhaps we could have prostrations to and circumnabulation of digital media on hardrives. Everybody would be happy as a clam.

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by krodha »

oldbob wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:08 pm Also, this new transmission and Direct Introduction Guideline appears to be directly in opposition to the guidelines provided in the two communications of 2016 as to who can teach. In the two communications of 2016, it is clearly stated that anyone who has accomplished a practice can teach that practice. These criteria were not limited to SMS instructors but were applied to everyone. Also, the two communications of 2016 did not state at all that Transmission and Direct introduction were not included in the permissions given in the 2016 communications. Therefore Transmission and Direct Introduction are included and are allowed to be taught by " anyone who has accomplished that practice."
Better to just follow the guidelines from texts like the Rigpa Rangshar regarding who is qualified to give and receive teachings, including direct introduction.

Gambling one’s path on anything less is a fool’s errand.

The teaching will degrade quickly if we allow any moron who declares they have “accomplished a teaching” to give transmission to others. It will be the blind leading the blind.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Virgo »

Virgo wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:29 pm Well I was thinking perhaps in the Dream DC we could have a more scientific bent, but also perhaps we could have prostrations to and circumnabulation of digital media on hardrives. Everybody would be happy as a clam.

Virgo
You've got:

1. Dreams (for receiving ALL transmissions and permission to teach)
2. Science (since it is more powerful than yidams)
3. The worshipping of Digital Media. (mediaphiles can get thier fix)

Virgo
Last edited by Virgo on Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Sherab Rigdrol »

Can someone please PM me an invite code to the Sangha App? Thank you!!
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by oldbob »

Also ---

Questions & Answers for Annual General Meeting (AGM) 2020 - Categorised questions.pdf
"IG has no mandate to suggest new possibilities but only to take care of the transmission and therefore to recommend respect for the instructions of the Master. In 2016 Chogyal Namkhai Norbu wrote a letter to all practitioners, which clearly shows his total trust in his family and that no practitioner can give the transmission to our primordial state, or the transmission of tantric practices."

In actual fact, the two letters of 2016, as to who can teach, do NOT/NOT make statements as described and the IG is misstating the instructions of the Master.

The words of ChNNR of 2016 state that anyone who has completed a practice can teach that practice.

As to what his family can teach, ChNNR stated "I have perfect trust that they can teach anything that I have taught them." Neither ChNNR, nor the family, has revealed what it is that he has taught them. If ChNNR had wanted only a single individual to give the Direct Introduction and the Lung readings he would have written something about this. To date, nothing written or recorded has been forthcoming about this issue.

In the IG FAQ guidelines, the SMS Instructors are the only ones authorized to teach and in the ATIF Guidelines they are not allowed to teach DI or Lungs. Isn't this in direct opposition to the words of ChNN in the 2 letters of 2016 as to who can teach (anyone who has completed a practice) which also state that the SMS Instructors cannot teach anything just because they are SMS Instructors.

So maybe we need new guidelines that harmonize the FAQs, the Guidelines of the ATIF and the advice of ChNN in the 2 communications of 2016.

http://dzogchencommunity.org/faqs/

Blue (8)
Are there guidelines regarding whom can be invited to teach at a Dzogchen Community-organised event?
Yes, these are the guidelines: Dzogchen Community organizes Teachings by Rinpoche, and courses by authorized instructors of Santi Maha Sangha, Yantra Yoga, Vajra Dance, and Khaita, and that is all.

See P14. of the ATIF guidelines.

http://melong.com/wp-content/uploads/20 ... tation.pdf

P14

Guidelines for the content of public courses on
Meditation
General considerations
This document provides a general guideline for the topics that can be taught in Public Courses, and
also delineates that which can not be taught in order to be supported by ATIF.
We are all aware that nobody has the authority to give indications of this type except the Master
himself. Fortunately Rinpoche repeatedly gave clear explanations on this issue, which have been
collected and summarized in this document.

The main characteristic of Public Courses is that everything related to Sutra teachings can be freely
taught in the three aspects of View, Meditation and Behavior, whereas teachings and methods
related to Tantra and Dzogchen should not be taught, since they require Empowerments, Direct
Introduction or transmission of lungs.

Chögyal Namkhai Norbu never authorized any SMS teacher
to give Initiations, Direct Transmission in any form, or Lungs, so such an activity can not be
recognized by ATIF.


Chögyal Namkhai Norbu encouraged instructors to teach according to circumstances, entering the
dimension of those present. Therefore, while establishing clear boundaries in terms of content,
these guidelines do not intend to constrain the style of communicating of each individual
instructor. Nevetheless, they need to speak and behave in an appropriate manner, avoiding
divisive opinions, such as those related to gender, politics, religion, race, etc.
Content and intention of Public Courses
The aim of these courses is to aid participants to develop awareness of their existence as a whole:
how their Body, Energy and Mind function and interact. Based on this understanding they can
discover how to free limitations and evolve, living a more joyful life.
In terms of examples for the View, teachers can describe to those interested the basis of Buddhist
philosophy, such as the Four Noble Truths, the Four Awarenesses that change the mental attitude,
the Six Paramitas, advice on karma, faith and how to follow a Teacher. They can also talk about the
Three Gates, their functions and the general overview of the Three Paths of Liberation.
In terms of examples for Meditation, teachers could explain the Three Sacred Fundamentals and
give advice on body posture, breathing, and ways to develop ordinary presence and awareness.
They can also teach other methods from Hinayana and Mahayana such as the Four Applications of
Presence, the Four Immeasurables, and so on.
In terms of examples for Behavior, teachers could explain the essence of Hinayana: not harming
others and of Mahayana: working with intention, for the benefits of others. As well, teachers can
define the importance of integrating ordinary presence and awareness in the actions of daily life,
and to use self-observation to discover the function of the mind, its movements and its limits.
As we all know, practices related to Vajrayana empowerments and DzogchenTransmission such as
Semdzin, Rushen, Kumbhaka and prana related practices cannot be taught in open courses.
References
The reference texts are the open part of the Precious Vase (The Way to Enter the
Teaching) and other open materials from Chögyal Namkhai Norbu such as The Mirror,
The Crystal and the Way of Light, etc.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Malcolm »

oldbob wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:07 pm

Chögyal Namkhai Norbu never authorized any SMS teacher
to give Initiations, Direct Transmission in any form, or Lungs, so such an activity can not be
recognized by ATIF.



As I said, the DC is dead in the water.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Virgo »

Menpa Malcolm,

Is there a reason people can't be relaxed, happy, and collaborative?

Why do people always seem to be aggressive, unhappy and strongly opinionated, so often?

:anjali:

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Malcolm »

Virgo wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:51 pm Menpa Malcolm,

Is there a reason people can't be relaxed, happy, and collaborative?

Why do people always seem to be aggressive, unhappy and strongly opinionated, so often?
Self-grasping.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Mantrik »

I used to post a lot here, and was a Mod at one time, when a great deal of the traffic was about ChNN and the DC.
I support what Malcolm has posted and am not in the least persuaded by the use of soundbite quotes to support nabbing the books and teachings because of something he may once have said which fits someone's personal obsession.
It is sad to see the decline of the DC but it is time, after NDA, for DNR.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Virgo »

Malcolm wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:55 pm

Self-grasping.
Thanks.

Virgo
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