Sure. My point, however, was that the official channels of communication do not deliver -- and deliver they should.Tongnyid Dorje wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:09 amOfficially we dont know, but unofficially we know, that Yeshi "dont want to have anything to do with this tibetan folklore". Anyway, if they wanted to succed their father, they would be teaching already for some time when Rinpoche was canceling His schedule due to His condition. That was the right time for them to stand up.
Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Générosité de l’invisible.
Notre gratitude est infinie.
Le critère est l’hospitalité.
Edmond Jabès
Notre gratitude est infinie.
Le critère est l’hospitalité.
Edmond Jabès
Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Apparently there are three people who Rinpoche gave permission to transmit dzogchen:his son, his daughter and a guy in China.
A person i met recently, who had some first hand information, mentioned that he heard Rinpoche’s daughter saying that she will be happy to give transmission in the future but only after she has taken care of her children’s education and their upbringing.
A person i met recently, who had some first hand information, mentioned that he heard Rinpoche’s daughter saying that she will be happy to give transmission in the future but only after she has taken care of her children’s education and their upbringing.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
So.. anyone know what the gent in China is thinking?florin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:22 pm Apparently there are three people who Rinpoche gave permission to transmit dzogchen:his son, his daughter and a guy in China.
A person i met recently, who had some first hand information, mentioned that he heard Rinpoche’s daughter saying that she will be happy to give transmission in the future but only after she has taken care of her children’s education and their upbringing.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Good news, if true. But -- why those running things now will not let us officially know this is the case?
Générosité de l’invisible.
Notre gratitude est infinie.
Le critère est l’hospitalité.
Edmond Jabès
Notre gratitude est infinie.
Le critère est l’hospitalité.
Edmond Jabès
Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
I think patience is important here. When the year of mourning was suggested it was highlighted that periods of mourning are traditionally much longer.
As for the future of transmission, there could be a number of conditions at play. It's a big responsibility to take on from any one who has the capacity to do so. Perhaps they are waiting for the right indications, signs or circumstances in their private lives or own practice.
I think we are operating under a very different time-scale compared to how these matters would usually continue. Is transmission usually an instant relay rally? How many thousands of people have received transmission and a connection to the Longsal teachings and is this number at all usual? That's a genuine question and one I don't know the answer for but I do know that we are the extremely fortunate ones. We have something to work with and our own participation and ongoing support of the community will undoubtedly serve as a supporting condition for whatever we would want to see happen in the future.
As for the future of transmission, there could be a number of conditions at play. It's a big responsibility to take on from any one who has the capacity to do so. Perhaps they are waiting for the right indications, signs or circumstances in their private lives or own practice.
I think we are operating under a very different time-scale compared to how these matters would usually continue. Is transmission usually an instant relay rally? How many thousands of people have received transmission and a connection to the Longsal teachings and is this number at all usual? That's a genuine question and one I don't know the answer for but I do know that we are the extremely fortunate ones. We have something to work with and our own participation and ongoing support of the community will undoubtedly serve as a supporting condition for whatever we would want to see happen in the future.
'When thoughts arise, recognise them clearly as your teacher'— Gampopa
'When alone, examine your mind, when among others, examine your speech'.— Atisha
'When alone, examine your mind, when among others, examine your speech'.— Atisha
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Thank you for some positivity and measured perspective, this thread needs some right now.Vasana wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:39 pm I think patience is important here. When the year of mourning was suggested it was highlighted that periods of mourning are traditionally much longer.
As for the future of transmission, there could be a number of conditions at play. It's a big responsibility to take on from any one who has the capacity to do so. Perhaps they are waiting for the right indications, signs or circumstances in their private lives or own practice.
I think we are operating under a very different time-scale compared to how these matters would usually continue. Is transmission usually an instant relay rally? How many thousands of people have received transmission and a connection to the Longsal teachings and is this number at all usual? That's a genuine question and one I don't know the answer for but I do know that we are the extremely fortunate ones. We have something to work with and our own participation and ongoing support of the community will undoubtedly serve as a supporting condition for whatever we would want to see happen in the future.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
I think it also needs realism. Simply saying things will take care of themselves is a bit of a deflective answer, it’s getting exasperating hearing it. These are valid concerns being brought up.“dharmafootsteps” wrote:
Thank you for some positivity and measured perspective, this thread needs some right now.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Going by what she said, I dont think this info about the daughter is that relevant at this present moment. It is something that is relevant for the future, whenever that may be. So beyond this, I don’t think is that helpful to speculate. But i think in some circles the fact that Yeshi and his sister have the capacity and authorisation to transmit was well known for a number of years.treehuggingoctopus wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:21 pmGood news, if true. But -- why those running things now will not let us officially know this is the case?
Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Understandable frustration JD, but what more can we realistically do? If there are no official statements all we really can do is continue as best we can. Not deflecting that things will need to be addressed at some point but we can't make things happen sooner than they will.
'When thoughts arise, recognise them clearly as your teacher'— Gampopa
'When alone, examine your mind, when among others, examine your speech'.— Atisha
'When alone, examine your mind, when among others, examine your speech'.— Atisha
Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
In the same conversation i have been told that before Rinpoche gave him permission to transmit he was a monk and was the head of a monastery or so I remember.DechenDave wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:13 pmSo.. anyone know what the gent in China is thinking?florin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:22 pm Apparently there are three people who Rinpoche gave permission to transmit dzogchen:his son, his daughter and a guy in China.
A person i met recently, who had some first hand information, mentioned that he heard Rinpoche’s daughter saying that she will be happy to give transmission in the future but only after she has taken care of her children’s education and their upbringing.
But there was a mention of him and a short discussion of his credentials here somewhere about a year ago i think.
Other than that I don’t know who he is or what his plans are.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
I heard that chinese sangha asked Changchub Dorjes grandgrand son or nephew and came under his guidence, breaking up from IDC.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
I know the first part of the rumour but the other half is news to me So we have now a splinter group that rejects the authority of the IDG -- or no longer considers itself a part of the DC?Tongnyid Dorje wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:51 pm I heard that chinese sangha asked Changchub Dorjes grandgrand son or nephew and came under his guidence, breaking up from IDC.
Générosité de l’invisible.
Notre gratitude est infinie.
Le critère est l’hospitalité.
Edmond Jabès
Notre gratitude est infinie.
Le critère est l’hospitalité.
Edmond Jabès
Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
with the humble capacity of outspokenness I possess, I addressed already 2 dzogchen masters with the issue that the dzogchen is dying out in the west. I am afraid to tell you JD, that "things will take care of themselves" both times were exactly the answer...Johnny Dangerous wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:55 pmI think it also needs realism. Simply saying things will take care of themselves is a bit of a deflective answer, it’s getting exasperating hearing it. These are valid concerns being brought up.“dharmafootsteps” wrote:
Thank you for some positivity and measured perspective, this thread needs some right now.
Ho! All the possible appearances and existences of samsara and nirvana have the same source, yet two paths and two results arise as the magical display of awareness and unawareness.
HO NANG SRI KHOR DAE THAMCHE KUN ZHI CHIG LAM NYI DRAE BU NYI RIG DANG MA RIG CHOM THRUL TE
HO NANG SRI KHOR DAE THAMCHE KUN ZHI CHIG LAM NYI DRAE BU NYI RIG DANG MA RIG CHOM THRUL TE
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
What I said is all what I know, no details to that.treehuggingoctopus wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:28 pmI know the first part of the rumour but the other half is news to me So we have now a splinter group that rejects the authority of the IDG -- or no longer considers itself a part of the DC?Tongnyid Dorje wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:51 pm I heard that chinese sangha asked Changchub Dorjes grandgrand son or nephew and came under his guidence, breaking up from IDC.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Oh sure. Only we are not discussing the future of Dzogchen in the West here. We are thinking about the future of the DC worldwide.weitsicht wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:48 pmwith the humble capacity of outspokenness I possess, I addressed already 2 dzogchen masters with the issue that the dzogchen is dying out in the west. I am afraid to tell you JD, that "things will take care of themselves" both times were exactly the answer...Johnny Dangerous wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:55 pmI think it also needs realism. Simply saying things will take care of themselves is a bit of a deflective answer, it’s getting exasperating hearing it. These are valid concerns being brought up.“dharmafootsteps” wrote:
Thank you for some positivity and measured perspective, this thread needs some right now.
Générosité de l’invisible.
Notre gratitude est infinie.
Le critère est l’hospitalité.
Edmond Jabès
Notre gratitude est infinie.
Le critère est l’hospitalité.
Edmond Jabès
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
I dont think dzogchen teachings are in decline in the west. Our concerns are for DC as organization and its future without ChNNR. Plenty teachers and Rinpoches are teaching dzogchen but in the traditional context.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
WRT to the DC, bluntly we aren't talking about Dzogchen masters anymore. We are talking about people responsible for running/coordinating an organization, it's about practical abilities to communicate, etc. (or lack thereof) So my comment was directed towards those practical matters, not larger issues of Dzogchen transmission.weitsicht wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:48 pmwith the humble capacity of outspokenness I possess, I addressed already 2 dzogchen masters with the issue that the dzogchen is dying out in the west. I am afraid to tell you JD, that "things will take care of themselves" both times were exactly the answer...Johnny Dangerous wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:55 pmI think it also needs realism. Simply saying things will take care of themselves is a bit of a deflective answer, it’s getting exasperating hearing it. These are valid concerns being brought up.“dharmafootsteps” wrote:
Thank you for some positivity and measured perspective, this thread needs some right now.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
As something of an outsider to the DC (I mean, I’m a member and have been to my local ling; but primarily due to circumstance my occasional posts here are my closest to DC organizational participation);
The one year of silence seemed kind of like a way of giving enough time to figure out the next step, and now that that year is up it appears that there isn’t one.
That’s just how it seems, obviously I could be very wrong. I had assumed that ChNN had a plan, and at least it seems now that either he did not or his plan didn’t work out due to circumstance.
Of course there is a lot of Dzogchen being taught in the west, that isn’t in danger; but the DC organization certainly is.
From my understanding there are most certainly members of the DC who would be qualified to give lung; and there are authorized lamas in the DC, so they would have the qualification to give DI (I am aware those are potentially somewhat controversial statements, but I believe I’m correct). But the question would be wether or not anyone of those would be both be able to be accept by all, or a majority, or the DC organization (seems very politically tricky) and also be willing to step into a ridiculously high-pressure/high-work/low-worldly-reward position in an organization that was built around someone else’s capacities and preferences.
It definitely seems possible that this could happen, but it seems like it requires a lot of circumstances to align just-so.
The one year of silence seemed kind of like a way of giving enough time to figure out the next step, and now that that year is up it appears that there isn’t one.
That’s just how it seems, obviously I could be very wrong. I had assumed that ChNN had a plan, and at least it seems now that either he did not or his plan didn’t work out due to circumstance.
Of course there is a lot of Dzogchen being taught in the west, that isn’t in danger; but the DC organization certainly is.
From my understanding there are most certainly members of the DC who would be qualified to give lung; and there are authorized lamas in the DC, so they would have the qualification to give DI (I am aware those are potentially somewhat controversial statements, but I believe I’m correct). But the question would be wether or not anyone of those would be both be able to be accept by all, or a majority, or the DC organization (seems very politically tricky) and also be willing to step into a ridiculously high-pressure/high-work/low-worldly-reward position in an organization that was built around someone else’s capacities and preferences.
It definitely seems possible that this could happen, but it seems like it requires a lot of circumstances to align just-so.
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Im not aware of any authorizide lamas in DC nor anyone besides Rinpoches children. Could you elaborate on this point a bit, please? sounds interresting.
Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
I may not have been as clear as I meant to be.Tongnyid Dorje wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:26 pm Im not aware of any authorizide lamas in DC nor anyone besides Rinpoches children. Could you elaborate on this point a bit, please? sounds interresting.
I mean people who are authorized as lamas who are also DC members; not that they were authorized as lamas IN the DC.
I don’t know if they’re currently active, but Malcolm Smith and Tsultrim Allione were (are?) both DC members and are qualified to give DI.
I believe (and apparently this is controversial, but I remember hearing Rinpoche say it) doing a three roots retreat succefully (having signs) qualifies one to give lung.
BUT, of course, lung is contingent on having received DI.
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa