Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

[Johnny Dangerous]

This is important I think. There is a feeling to me that some of the people that see the events from a long away away think that the family of Rinpoche owes them something. I think the family rejects this. I do not see their hearts, but I see their silence.
I say again, those who have practices from Rinpoche should do. Those who do not should find other teachers. This is in kindness.

Oh for sure, I feel lucky just to have received what I did, and that is precious regardless of what the DC does as an organization.

[heart]

Point taken. Truth be told, nothing of what I know about the response has been made public by the DC. And it is also fairly possible that the response, or the lack of it, was also due to our failure to communicate properly. It could explain, for instance, why there were (as far as I know ) no official representatives of Tibetan institutions at the "funeral" ceremony.

Feel free to tell us. I can't imagine a "funeral" ceremony for someone who been embalmed, anyway I find it very strange that DC communicate by gossip only. If you don't know someone that knows then you are not in the loop.

/magnus

I always find these statements about the DCs lack of transparency a little strange. I certainly agree it could do with being more so, but very few organisations are particularly good at transparency, and Tibetan Buddhist sanghas some of the least of all. I actually find the DC to be more transparent than most. It feels like they are held to a different standard as I've never seen complaints about other sanghas transparency here.

Well, I wasn't comparing DC to any other organisation or sangha I just say they lost me as a member when they didn't inform me, and all other ordinary members, of the circumstances of Rinpoches death. Am I asking too much?

/magnus

[Giovanni]

Not too much. But perhaps you think that someone feels in charge to tell such things? I think that is not the case here.
I think all senior people look at each other and wait for them to say. That is what I see.
We could wait and wait and wait.
Rinpoche was a great Siddha. He would know how this would go. And yet he left no clear path. He had his reasons.
He saw what happens when teachers attain great samadhi. Wars and power and scrambling.
He did not want it. He saw D.C.fading away and taking new forms. That is my guess.

[dharmafootsteps]

Feel free to tell us. I can't imagine a "funeral" ceremony for someone who been embalmed, anyway I find it very strange that DC communicate by gossip only. If you don't know someone that knows then you are not in the loop.

/magnus

I always find these statements about the DCs lack of transparency a little strange. I certainly agree it could do with being more so, but very few organisations are particularly good at transparency, and Tibetan Buddhist sanghas some of the least of all. I actually find the DC to be more transparent than most. It feels like they are held to a different standard as I've never seen complaints about other sanghas transparency here.

Well, I wasn't comparing DC to any other organisation or sangha I just say they lost me as a member when they didn't inform me, and all other ordinary members, of the circumstances of Rinpoches death. Am I asking too much?

/magnus

Well to me, yes that's too much, if it wasn't I would have also left if I considered my membership to be predicate on hearing the details of Rinpoche's death. I would have liked to hear more of course, but my membership isn't dependent on that. Just as I'm not going to cease my association and contribution to the Shedrub Mandala or Samye Institute because even scarcer details are shared about the health of Chokling Rinpoche. I'm not saying you're wrong for doing so, you're free to have your own opinion of the conditions of your membership of course.

As I just mentioned, it's not students of Rinpoche that choose not to make these sorts of things public, it's the family. The students/DC simply respect the family's wishes, as Rinpoche emphasized in his life.

[heart]

Not too much. But perhaps you think that someone feels in charge to tell such things? I think that is not the case here.
I think all senior people look at each other and wait for them to say. That is what I see.

How about the mirror?

/magnus

[Giovanni]

I don’t understand.

[Malcolm]

He saw D.C.fading away and taking new forms. That is my guess.

This contradicts everything he ever said in his life about the future of the DC.

[heart]

I don’t understand.

http://melong.com

The purpose of the melong is to inform people about what happens in the community.

/magnus

[Giovanni]

I don’t understand.

http://melong.com

The purpose of the melong is to inform people about what happens in the community.

/magnus

Ah so specchio is mirror in English OK now I understand Melong in English is mirror.

[Giovanni]

He saw D.C.fading away and taking new forms. That is my guess.

This contradicts everything he ever said in his life about the future of the DC.

Yet it is happening perhaps. So, the present situation will change in ways we don’t yet know . Or Rinpoche could not foresee. Or he changed his mind. Or what he seemed to mean has to be reinterpretation.
I am not a prophet. I just see what I see and I hear the talk. Lots of quiet talk.

[Aloke]

He saw D.C.fading away and taking new forms. That is my guess.

This contradicts everything he ever said in his life about the future of the DC.

Yet it is happening perhaps. So, the present situation will change in ways we don’t yet know . Or Rinpoche could not foresee. Or he changed his mind. Or what he seemed to mean has to be reinterpretation.
I am not a prophet. I just see what I see and I hear the talk. Lots of quiet talk.

Indeed. Very clearly.

[Tata1]

I always find these statements about the DCs lack of transparency a little strange. I certainly agree it could do with being more so, but very few organisations are particularly good at transparency, and Tibetan Buddhist sanghas some of the least of all. I actually find the DC to be more transparent than most. It feels like they are held to a different standard as I've never seen complaints about other sanghas transparency here.

Well, I wasn't comparing DC to any other organisation or sangha I just say they lost me as a member when they didn't inform me, and all other ordinary members, of the circumstances of Rinpoches death. Am I asking too much?

/magnus

Well to me, yes that's too much, if it wasn't I would have also left if I considered my membership to be predicate on hearing the details of Rinpoche's death. I would have liked to hear more of course, but my membership isn't dependent on that. Just as I'm not going to cease my association and contribution to the Shedrub Mandala or Samye Institute because even scarcer details are shared about the health of Chokling Rinpoche. I'm not saying you're wrong for doing so, you're free to have your own opinion of the conditions of your membership of course.

As I just mentioned, it's not students of Rinpoche that choose not to make these sorts of things public, it's the family. The students/DC simply respect the family's wishes, as Rinpoche emphasized in his life.

Agree.
To me thats also to much to ask

[Moha]

As far as I can tell, it is because Yeshe is in a conflict with the Dzogchen Community.

Is the reason for this conflict known?

[Aloke]

"During his visited he (CNNR) suggested to Lama Tsultrim that Tara Mandala become a "Dam Trog" of the Dzogchen Community, meaning a Samaya Fellowship, an associated organization that operates independently but shares many practices and transmissions. Lama Tsultrim was happy to accept this suggestion, so now the two organizations a happily bound by the relationship of "Dam Trog"."

Lama Tsultrim Allione today in her Facebook page.

[heart]

I always find these statements about the DCs lack of transparency a little strange. I certainly agree it could do with being more so, but very few organisations are particularly good at transparency, and Tibetan Buddhist sanghas some of the least of all. I actually find the DC to be more transparent than most. It feels like they are held to a different standard as I've never seen complaints about other sanghas transparency here.

Well, I wasn't comparing DC to any other organisation or sangha I just say they lost me as a member when they didn't inform me, and all other ordinary members, of the circumstances of Rinpoches death. Am I asking too much?

/magnus

Well to me, yes that's too much, if it wasn't I would have also left if I considered my membership to be predicate on hearing the details of Rinpoche's death. I would have liked to hear more of course, but my membership isn't dependent on that. Just as I'm not going to cease my association and contribution to the Shedrub Mandala or Samye Institute because even scarcer details are shared about the health of Chokling Rinpoche. I'm not saying you're wrong for doing so, you're free to have your own opinion of the conditions of your membership of course.

As I just mentioned, it's not students of Rinpoche that choose not to make these sorts of things public, it's the family. The students/DC simply respect the family's wishes, as Rinpoche emphasized in his life.

I have received no communication about Chokling Rinpoches health, if you did you are probably in the loop of gossip that I am not. From your answer it seems clear that you know more than me about ChNNR death also. It is great to be in the loop, to know more than others, right? Then "respecting the family's wishes" is a lot easier.

/magnus

[Giovanni]

Heart, believe it. There is no loop of gossip. There is gossip. But no loop of real information. You know the expression Chinese Whispers?
Let us remember. Rinpoches legacy is great and good. But this messiness might take a generation to sweep up.

[dharmafootsteps]

Well, I wasn't comparing DC to any other organisation or sangha I just say they lost me as a member when they didn't inform me, and all other ordinary members, of the circumstances of Rinpoches death. Am I asking too much?

/magnus

Well to me, yes that's too much, if it wasn't I would have also left if I considered my membership to be predicate on hearing the details of Rinpoche's death. I would have liked to hear more of course, but my membership isn't dependent on that. Just as I'm not going to cease my association and contribution to the Shedrub Mandala or Samye Institute because even scarcer details are shared about the health of Chokling Rinpoche. I'm not saying you're wrong for doing so, you're free to have your own opinion of the conditions of your membership of course.

As I just mentioned, it's not students of Rinpoche that choose not to make these sorts of things public, it's the family. The students/DC simply respect the family's wishes, as Rinpoche emphasized in his life.

I have received no communication about Chokling Rinpoches health, if you did you are probably in the loop of gossip that I am not. From your answer it seems clear that you know more than me about ChNNR death also. It is great to be in the loop, to know more than others, right? Then "respecting the family's wishes" is a lot easier.

/magnus

Generally how much gossip I've heard isn't a major component of my ability to respect people's wishes.

[Tata1]

"During his visited he (CNNR) suggested to Lama Tsultrim that Tara Mandala become a "Dam Trog" of the Dzogchen Community, meaning a Samaya Fellowship, an associated organization that operates independently but shares many practices and transmissions. Lama Tsultrim was happy to accept this suggestion, so now the two organizations a happily bound by the relationship of "Dam Trog"."

Lama Tsultrim Allione today in her Facebook page.

This is really good news

[heart]

Well to me, yes that's too much, if it wasn't I would have also left if I considered my membership to be predicate on hearing the details of Rinpoche's death. I would have liked to hear more of course, but my membership isn't dependent on that. Just as I'm not going to cease my association and contribution to the Shedrub Mandala or Samye Institute because even scarcer details are shared about the health of Chokling Rinpoche. I'm not saying you're wrong for doing so, you're free to have your own opinion of the conditions of your membership of course.

As I just mentioned, it's not students of Rinpoche that choose not to make these sorts of things public, it's the family. The students/DC simply respect the family's wishes, as Rinpoche emphasized in his life.

I have received no communication about Chokling Rinpoches health, if you did you are probably in the loop of gossip that I am not. From your answer it seems clear that you know more than me about ChNNR death also. It is great to be in the loop, to know more than others, right? Then "respecting the family's wishes" is a lot easier.

/magnus

Generally how much gossip I've heard isn't a major component of my ability to respect people's wishes.

I think I might have sounded a bit more confrontational in that last post than I actually feel. Sorry about that.

However, I still wonder who in the family is that wish that Rinpoches students should know nothing of his death and last wishes? Why haven't that wish been communicated? In the case of Chokling Rinpoche I know who want everything "private". Tibetans seem too often want to suppress bad news and as a effect of that rumours multiply like rabbits. Not the best strategy in my eyes. But the Namkhai family is not really Tibetan, I think they all grew up in Italy, right?

/magnus

[Giovanni]

"During his visited he (CNNR) suggested to Lama Tsultrim that Tara Mandala become a "Dam Trog" of the Dzogchen Community, meaning a Samaya Fellowship, an associated organization that operates independently but shares many practices and transmissions. Lama Tsultrim was happy to accept this suggestion, so now the two organizations a happily bound by the relationship of "Dam Trog"."

Lama Tsultrim Allione today in her Facebook page.

This is really good news

I think so too. She is real. Rinpoche always praised her qualities. This might be the way that transmissions stay open to those who have not had. This is such good news at a time when the future looked uncertain.