Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

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climb-up
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by climb-up »

Malcolm wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:47 pm
climb-up wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:43 pm
Malcolm wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:36 pm

Other than Tsultrim's few practices, and perhaps Lama Denys in France, no one who is doing with the express permission of ChNN. People who do so are taking it upon themselves to do so. It's between them and the Dharmapālas.
Of course and, if they’re public it’s also between them and their students.
But didn’t you recently post here that permission to teach was a modern political innovation and not a requirement from the tantra?
If someone has received the empowerments, done the retreats and the study and has the necessary level of realization (which is obviously difficult, that’s true with any teacher right?) then they are qualified to pass on the teachings.
Is that not right?
Its not a modern innovation, per se, but the fact is that most people who start teaching do so when their guru passes away, and usually, to preserve the lineage, not promote themselves. It is ideal if one receives permission from one of one's gurus to teach. It is not necessary to receive permission from each and every one, however. Tulkus kind of have permission built in.


Well, that makes sense. Of course it would have been better if ChNN had given clear permission to someone or ones who were interested/able to take on his role.

Still, in regards to your point about teaching after a teacher has passed away in order to preserve the lineage:
Exactly!
I’m not saying folks should go around promoting themselves, but that the DC should be promoting these qualified individuals as those who can continue the lineage.
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
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climb-up
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by climb-up »

Aren’t there some empowerments that literally include a permission, or even encouragement, to teach?
I’m blanking on the name of the one I’m thinking of, but I though mr that was an explicit thing.
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Virgo »

oldbob wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:32 pm UNOFFICIAL

Date: ________________________________

Dear Shang Shung Foundation,

This email is to legally certify that I have contacted ChNN in a dream and have received his permission to study and practice all of his Teachings.

I have his permission to receive a copy of the complete Digital Archive and the complete Transcript Archive in whatever condition of editing they are currently in - at the actual cost of the digital media. He said that I could have this for my practice use only and that I should not share this with anyone else, and I agree to this. He said that I should make sure that the Digital Media is returned to SSF after I have finished with it.

Please supply a quotation as to what it would cost for a copy of the digital media and for shipping to the following address:

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Sincerely yours,

Name: ___________________________________________

Gar/Ling: _________________________________________

Membership Number: _______________________________

Please send to:

[email protected]

ob:world
This is ridiculous.

Virgo
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climb-up
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by climb-up »

oldbob wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:32 pm UNOFFICIAL

Date: ________________________________

Dear Shang Shung Foundation,

This email is to legally certify that I have contacted ChNN in a dream and have received his permission to study and practice all of his Teachings.

I have his permission to receive a copy of the complete Digital Archive and the complete Transcript Archive in whatever condition of editing they are currently in - at the actual cost of the digital media. He said that I could have this for my practice use only and that I should not share this with anyone else, and I agree to this. He said that I should make sure that the Digital Media is returned to SSF after I have finished with it.

Please supply a quotation as to what it would cost for a copy of the digital media and for shipping to the following address:

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Sincerely yours,

Name: ___________________________________________

Gar/Ling: _________________________________________

Membership Number: _______________________________

Please send to:

[email protected]

ob:world
:rolling: :rolling: :rolling:
This is hilarious
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Malcolm »

climb-up wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:55 pm Aren’t there some empowerments that literally include a permission, or even encouragement, to teach?
I’m blanking on the name of the one I’m thinking of, but I though mr that was an explicit thing.
Yes, it is called the bka' gtad, the entrustment of the doctrine.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by climb-up »

Malcolm wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:00 pm
climb-up wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:55 pm Aren’t there some empowerments that literally include a permission, or even encouragement, to teach?
I’m blanking on the name of the one I’m thinking of, but I though mr that was an explicit thing.
Yes, it is called the bka' gtad, the entrustment of the doctrine.
❤️
This is, presumably, given to people who have completed their retreats and training (or, well idk if you ‘complete’ your training, but you know what I mean)?
Or would be given at, say, the start of a three retreat?
Something like that?
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Hansei »

treehuggingoctopus wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:43 am
Hansei wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:09 amWhat are the options nowadays for a Rinpoche's student to receive the Guhyagarbha empowerment and the Khandro Nyinthig empowerment?
In the EU, Gangteng Tulku regularly gives the Guhyagarbha wang as a part of his shedra programme. One can receive it from him whether one participates in the shedra or not: https://longchenrabjam.org/curriculum/

KN will be trickier.
Thank you very much.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by oldbob »

I have heard that there is one Russian and one Chinese who are giving DI and that some of the Instructors also do this unofficially while they are teaching something else. Elio said that this is what he did and it worked - nobody complained.

What is necessary is to create a new durable and sustainable system of easy and regular DI and Lung Authorizations that allow SSF to release the restricted material and also allows anyone who actually wants to practice a Secondary Practice to have a web-based point of contact for receiving actual instructions on that practice from a living lineage holder. The key point is that the student has to have complete confidence that he has received permission from ChNN through a lineage holder, or by another means, to study and practice the Secondary Practice.

We need to create a list of lineage holders for each of the Secondary Practices who are willing to provide this service to the Community on an as-needed and / or regular basis. Perhaps a Lung could be provided 4 times per year by a Tibetan speaker, for all of the Secondary Practices.

Since ChNN has taught each Secondary Practice in the 650+ retreats in the DA, it would also be possible for a student to take the instructions for a Secondary Practice directly from ChNN. Then no mistakes would be made in the transmission and also no one can complain that the Teacher was not qualified.

This is mostly an administrative matter and is doable now at very little cost. We would have to see if any of the lineage holders would participate.

If this is not possible then going outside the box, and working with circumstances, maybe it would be possible to allow Lung Authorization from a recording of ChNN - of course, with his permission for this given in a dream, to overcome the fact that he said that Lungs could not be given from recordings.

Working with changing circumstances, maybe now he would allow this - in a dream.

Maybe a lineage holder can touch the student's head with a pen drive holding the recording and confirm permission in that way.

Perseverance Furthers.

ob

:heart:
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Virgo »

Bob did you move from the West Coast to Massachusetts a few years ago?

Virgo
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Danny »

The voice of the bee.

Rinpoche wrote that. It’s quite telling
Last edited by Danny on Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Josef »

Virgo wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:56 pm
oldbob wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:32 pm UNOFFICIAL

Date: ________________________________

Dear Shang Shung Foundation,

This email is to legally certify that I have contacted ChNN in a dream and have received his permission to study and practice all of his Teachings.

I have his permission to receive a copy of the complete Digital Archive and the complete Transcript Archive in whatever condition of editing they are currently in - at the actual cost of the digital media. He said that I could have this for my practice use only and that I should not share this with anyone else, and I agree to this. He said that I should make sure that the Digital Media is returned to SSF after I have finished with it.

Please supply a quotation as to what it would cost for a copy of the digital media and for shipping to the following address:

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Sincerely yours,

Name: ___________________________________________

Gar/Ling: _________________________________________

Membership Number: _______________________________

Please send to:

[email protected]

ob:world
This is ridiculous.

Virgo
It is pretty ridiculous for anyone other than oneself and ones teacher (s), living or dead to determine what one can and can not utilize as a resource in their path to liberation.
"All phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence of mind is purified, samsara is purified. Since the phenomena of nirvana depend on the pristine consciousness of vidyā, because one remains in the immediacy of vidyā, buddhahood arises on its own. All critical points are summarized with those two." - Longchenpa
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Virgo »

Josef wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:42 pm

It is pretty ridiculous for anyone other than oneself and ones teacher (s), living or dead to determine what one can and can not utilize as a resource in their path to liberation.
Alirght then have a dream contact ChNN, have him give you permission to access all the digital media so long as you don't share it with anyone else and make sure it will be returned when you are finished with it, print the form, fill it out, and send it in.

Virgo
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Danny »

oldbob wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:32 pm

This email is to legally certify that I have contacted ChNN in a dream and have received his permission to study and practice all of his Teachings.


There’s precedent...

Rinpoche himself said that he received the green light for togal from dream.. Changchub dorje told him ... jigme lingpa gave...

Rinpoche related that story.
Last edited by Danny on Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Josef »

Virgo wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:47 pm
Josef wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:42 pm

It is pretty ridiculous for anyone other than oneself and ones teacher (s), living or dead to determine what one can and can not utilize as a resource in their path to liberation.
Alirght then have a dream contact ChNN, have him give you permission to access all the digital media so long as you don't share it with anyone else and make sure it will be returned when you are finished with it, print the form, fill it out, and send it in.

Virgo
Not necessary for me at least.
"All phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence of mind is purified, samsara is purified. Since the phenomena of nirvana depend on the pristine consciousness of vidyā, because one remains in the immediacy of vidyā, buddhahood arises on its own. All critical points are summarized with those two." - Longchenpa
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Malcolm »

Danny wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:49 pm
oldbob wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:32 pm

This email is to legally certify that I have contacted ChNN in a dream and have received his permission to study and practice all of his Teachings.


There’s precedent...
Not really, you didn’t understand the point of that story at all.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Danny »

Malcolm wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:45 am
Danny wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:49 pm
oldbob wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:32 pm

This email is to legally certify that I have contacted ChNN in a dream and have received his permission to study and practice all of his Teachings.


There’s precedent...
Not really, you didn’t understand the point of that story at all.
Yeah I did. The point was Rinpoche said he was totally focused in trechod. That he was committed to that, and eventually was informed, nudged, hey! What about your togal?
Malcolm
Don’t under cut...

Unless you have something else to add?
Respectfully
I would listen to you.
Last edited by Danny on Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:01 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Virgo »

Josef wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:54 pm
Virgo wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:47 pm
Josef wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:42 pm

It is pretty ridiculous for anyone other than oneself and ones teacher (s), living or dead to determine what one can and can not utilize as a resource in their path to liberation.
Alirght then have a dream contact ChNN, have him give you permission to access all the digital media so long as you don't share it with anyone else and make sure it will be returned when you are finished with it, print the form, fill it out, and send it in.

Virgo
Not necessary for me at least.
So do you think an dream DC should be started?

Virgo
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Moha »

Today, the 17th day of the 8th month, marks the 3rd year anniversary of our teacher's parinirvana.

The Practice of Dzogchen in Daily Life

Try to be present in your daily life. For example, you can say to yourself, “For the next hour, I am going to try to be present and not be distracted by anything.” Being present is like driving a car. When you drive a car, you do not have an accident or go off the road, even if you are talking to your passenger or looking around. Why? Because you are being present. But your life is not just the act of driving a car. All kinds of things are happening around you, and you are thinking and judging. But, if you are being present, any of those moments can be governed by that presence. If you are becoming a good practitioner, you can overcome being distracted. You can continually be present. This is a possibility that you must learn.

When you are being present, what do you do then? Dzogchen is not based on rules that tell you, “You can do this, but you cannot do that.” Dzogchen teaches you to just be present, and when you are being present, you work with circumstances and do your best. Rules that say, “This is correct, but that is not correct” do not always correspond to your circumstances in your relative condition in time and space. Rules always have this limitation, and so the teacher helps you understand as much as possible, and then you are responsible for yourself.

Practice in your daily life means being present and doing Guruyoga. When you are present, working with circumstances, you are aware of what you are thinking and doing, and your distractions go away. Then you are really becoming a Dzogchen practitioner. So try to be continually present and do Guruyoga, and then, when you have more time, you can also do secondary practices.

The Dzogchen teachings tell us that limitation is the root of samsara. This means any kind of limitation, even if that limitation is not apparent, like a cage that is transparent. If you make a cage of a crystal globe and put a small bird inside, the bird will be able to see all around, so it thinks, “How wonderful! This is better than my other cage.” But the bird still cannot get outside of the cage. Ordinary limitations are easy to recognize, but there are other limitations that are harder to see. For example, by even thinking of yourself as a Dzogchen practitioner, you can limit yourself. Being a Dzogchen practitioner does not mean anything other than you should be in the state of Dzogchen, which is beyond limitation.

All limitations reflect our dualistic vision and our relative condition. Sentient beings are not in their real nature; otherwise, there would be no samsara. And we should be respectful of all beings and the limitations that we share, even if we do not all have the same view. We know very well what our real condition is, but being respectful of other views is part of this awareness. The Italian word consapevolezza is a very nice word for this awareness. This is how we should be in our daily life. We are learning to be without limitation, to develop that kind of capacity. When it is possible, we also do secondary practices and retreats, but mainly we concentrate on being present and on being in the state of Guruyoga, which is our real nature.”

Excerpt from: Freedom from Attachment
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Josef »

Virgo wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:16 am
Josef wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:54 pm
Virgo wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:47 pm

Alirght then have a dream contact ChNN, have him give you permission to access all the digital media so long as you don't share it with anyone else and make sure it will be returned when you are finished with it, print the form, fill it out, and send it in.

Virgo
Not necessary for me at least.
So do you think an dream DC should be started?

Virgo
Pretty sure I never said anything like that.
"All phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence of mind is purified, samsara is purified. Since the phenomena of nirvana depend on the pristine consciousness of vidyā, because one remains in the immediacy of vidyā, buddhahood arises on its own. All critical points are summarized with those two." - Longchenpa
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Virgo »

Josef wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:51 am
Virgo wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:16 am
Josef wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:54 pm
Not necessary for me at least.
So do you think an dream DC should be started?

Virgo
Pretty sure I never said anything like that.
Okay, well just asking. That was being discussed in conjunction with the form.

Virgo
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