Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

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climb-up
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by climb-up »

PeterC wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:44 am
It’s very important to respect the transmission and uphold its purity. You can’t just sacrifice a goat and call yourself a Wiccan. People need to know that anyone leading midnight ceremonial orgies has been properly authorized by their master, and that there has been sufficient discussion in the community of witches and wizards such that a consensus has been reached on who exactly is authorized to transmit the different parts of this practice.

I mean - you can’t just go beyond limitations arbitrarily, you need to do so in a consensus-driven, properly-regulated way.
Oops, I got confused about who said this first.
Giving proper credit now...

... :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling:
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
oldbob
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by oldbob »

Dear all and All,

Ha Ha. Yes, the world is a funny place with many opportunities for humorous reflection. Sometimes witty or scholarly reflection can also be hijacking a thread as an "I can do this" power trip, or hijacking the thread may actually be skillful real-time political misdirection and obfuscation to prevent discussion of the issues. So what to do? Maybe DW is not the place to attempt a responsible discussion of the issues facing the IDC.

So, what to do?????????

Perhaps there should be a way forward that allows for an ongoing consensus solution to the issues facing the IDC. Otherwise the individuals from within and without of the Dzogchen Community, who are trying to promote failure of the Community, through creating a possible super-spreader calamity at Merigar, etc. - may win.

Please carefully observe the potentially tragic situation, work with circumstances and do your best.

It is important to have an open, friendly, and prosperous Dzogchen Community based on easy equal access to the living Transmission Lineage and all the archived Teachings of ChNN. This can be achieved by:

1. Enabling regular and easy Direct introductions, and Lung Reading Authorizations.

2. Enabling access to living Lineage holders for explanations of each Secondary Practice.

3. Allowing Members to have access to the Teachings held in the Digital and Transcript Archives.

4. Enabling a discussion of the issues through ongoing moderated Zoom conferences.

5. Allowing each decision affecting the future of the IDC to be decided by a simple vote of the Members on each issue.

If you want to have a Dzogchen Community with these features, then you can do something!!!!!!

You can write to the individuals who are responsible and share your thinking at:

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

[email protected]

For the “office” email, include a tag line: “Please pass to Gakyil of Merigar and responsible individuals.”

Also, write to your own Gakyils and anyone else who should be responsible for the continuation of the valid Transmission Lineage of ChNN.

Again, please think about what will happen to the reputation of the Dzogchen Community if a teaching event at Merigar becomes known as a super-spreader event? Suppose even only one person gets sick and dies, and it somehow is traceable to this event?

ChNN gave Direct Introduction, regularly on the web, using the Guru Yoga of Garab Dorje. Why can’t others do the same?

Maybe this Direct Introduction situation is a delicate matter that is critical to the success and survival of the Transmission Lineage of the Dzogchen Community. Perhaps this and other issues are deserving of further careful consideration by responsible individuals through moderated zoom conferences - before going forward.

So all jokes aside, shame, shame, shame on those administrators of the IDC who would put the reputation of the Dzogchen Community at serious risk by creating a possible super-spreader event at Merigar - for the chance to curry favor with a possible “new” Dzogchen Master of the Dzogchen Community.

Perhaps this is "absolutely wrong" and the world is watching.

Shame, Shame, Shame!!!

Most sincerely,

:heart:

Bob Kragen

PS While it is a much smaller issue, than appearing to advertize an entry into the Teachings of ChNN when it is not, the ongoing use of the phrase, “Accredited SMS Instructor” when that individual is only a base level instructor, is boldfaced fraud because the appearance is that Instructor is presenting themselves as approved by ChNN to teach all 9 levels of the SMS. Instructors who advertise themselves as SMS Instructors must include the level at which they were approved by ChNN to teach the SMS, and should note that that approval was only to teach the SMS, through that level.

It is suggested that administrators who promote false teaching credentials should resign because they are giving the Dzogchen Community a bad name.

Also, in the two communications of 2016 it was clear that SMS Instructors were not empowered to teach everything just because they were an SMS Instructor. The criteria for teaching a Secondary Practice was many times noted as “having accomplished that practice.”

Perhaps any SMS Instructors who put themselves forward as being authorized for what they are not, should not / not be allowed to teach within the IDC, as they give the IDC a bad reputation for false claims of spiritual authorization from ChNN when perhaps it is only themselves putting themselves forward for their own fame, fortune and power trip. Shame, SHAME on those Instructors who should know better and are willfully giving the IDC a bad name.

Perhaps shouting "theater" in a crowded fire (hijacking the thread with wit or scholarship) is not appropriate in a time like this where timely action on the part of Members of the IDC might avert calamity.
Sherab Rigdrol
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Sherab Rigdrol »

oldbob wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:16 am Dear all and All,

Ha Ha. Yes, the world is a funny place with many opportunities for humorous reflection. Sometimes witty or scholarly reflection can also be hijacking a thread as an "I can do this" power trip, or hijacking the thread may actually be skillful real-time political misdirection and obfuscation to prevent discussion of the issues. So what to do? Maybe DW is not the place to attempt a responsible discussion of the issues facing the IDC.

So, what to do?????????

Perhaps there should be a way forward that allows for an ongoing consensus solution to the issues facing the IDC. Otherwise the individuals from within and without of the Dzogchen Community, who are trying to promote failure of the Community, through creating a possible super-spreader calamity at Merigar, etc. - may win.

Please carefully observe the potentially tragic situation, work with circumstances and do your best.

It is important to have an open, friendly, and prosperous Dzogchen Community based on easy equal access to the living Transmission Lineage and all the archived Teachings of ChNN. This can be achieved by:

1. Enabling regular and easy Direct introductions, and Lung Reading Authorizations.

2. Enabling access to living Lineage holders for explanations of each Secondary Practice.

3. Allowing Members to have access to the Teachings held in the Digital and Transcript Archives.

4. Enabling a discussion of the issues through ongoing moderated Zoom conferences.

5. Allowing each decision affecting the future of the IDC to be decided by a simple vote of the Members on each issue.

If you want to have a Dzogchen Community with these features, then you can do something!!!!!!

You can write to the individuals who are responsible and share your thinking at:

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

[email protected]

For the “office” email, include a tag line: “Please pass to Gakyil of Merigar and responsible individuals.”

Also, write to your own Gakyils and anyone else who should be responsible for the continuation of the valid Transmission Lineage of ChNN.

Again, please think about what will happen to the reputation of the Dzogchen Community if a teaching event at Merigar becomes known as a super-spreader event? Suppose even only one person gets sick and dies, and it somehow is traceable to this event?

ChNN gave Direct Introduction, regularly on the web, using the Guru Yoga of Garab Dorje. Why can’t others do the same?

Maybe this Direct Introduction situation is a delicate matter that is critical to the success and survival of the Transmission Lineage of the Dzogchen Community. Perhaps this and other issues are deserving of further careful consideration by responsible individuals through moderated zoom conferences - before going forward.

So all jokes aside, shame, shame, shame on those administrators of the IDC who would put the reputation of the Dzogchen Community at serious risk by creating a possible super-spreader event at Merigar - for the chance to curry favor with a possible “new” Dzogchen Master of the Dzogchen Community.

Perhaps this is "absolutely wrong" and the world is watching.

Shame, Shame, Shame!!!

Most sincerely,

:heart:

Bob Kragen

PS While it is a much smaller issue, than appearing to advertize an entry into the Teachings of ChNN when it is not, the ongoing use of the phrase, “Accredited SMS Instructor” when that individual is only a base level instructor, is boldfaced fraud because the appearance is that Instructor is presenting themselves as approved by ChNN to teach all 9 levels of the SMS. Instructors who advertise themselves as SMS Instructors must include the level at which they were approved by ChNN to teach the SMS, and should note that that approval was only to teach the SMS, through that level.

It is suggested that administrators who promote false teaching credentials should resign because they are giving the Dzogchen Community a bad name.

Also, in the two communications of 2016 it was clear that SMS Instructors were not empowered to teach everything just because they were an SMS Instructor. The criteria for teaching a Secondary Practice was many times noted as “having accomplished that practice.”

Perhaps any SMS Instructors who put themselves forward as being authorized for what they are not, should not / not be allowed to teach within the IDC, as they give the IDC a bad reputation for false claims of spiritual authorization from ChNN when perhaps it is only themselves putting themselves forward for their own fame, fortune and power trip. Shame, SHAME on those Instructors who should know better and are willfully giving the IDC a bad name.

Perhaps shouting "theater" in a crowded fire (hijacking the thread with wit or scholarship) is not appropriate in a time like this where timely action on the part of Members of the IDC might avert calamity.
I think most of us here are in agreement that Adriano needs to steer the ship. The “instructors” who aren’t respecting the wishes of ChNN will have to deal with him when they die, we can’t do anything about them and their actions. Honestly as long as Shang Shung Publications stays afloat I’ll be content.
Malcolm
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Malcolm »

oldbob wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:16 am
Perhaps shouting "theater" in a crowded fire (hijacking the thread with wit or scholarship) is not appropriate in a time like this where timely action on the part of Members of the IDC might avert calamity.
All your concerns are quite valid, Bob. There are some obvious obstacles to all your suggestions. I have had convos with people at the highest levels of the DC hierarchy about these very issues. It’s a frustrating set of issues. They are also frustrated and making the best of a very uncertain situation.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Tata1 »

oldbob wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:16 am Dear all and All,

Ha Ha. Yes, the world is a funny place with many opportunities for humorous reflection. Sometimes witty or scholarly reflection can also be hijacking a thread as an "I can do this" power trip, or hijacking the thread may actually be skillful real-time political misdirection and obfuscation to prevent discussion of the issues. So what to do? Maybe DW is not the place to attempt a responsible discussion of the issues facing the IDC.

So, what to do?????????

Perhaps there should be a way forward that allows for an ongoing consensus solution to the issues facing the IDC. Otherwise the individuals from within and without of the Dzogchen Community, who are trying to promote failure of the Community, through creating a possible super-spreader calamity at Merigar, etc. - may win.

Please carefully observe the potentially tragic situation, work with circumstances and do your best.

It is important to have an open, friendly, and prosperous Dzogchen Community based on easy equal access to the living Transmission Lineage and all the archived Teachings of ChNN. This can be achieved by:

1. Enabling regular and easy Direct introductions, and Lung Reading Authorizations.

2. Enabling access to living Lineage holders for explanations of each Secondary Practice.

3. Allowing Members to have access to the Teachings held in the Digital and Transcript Archives.

4. Enabling a discussion of the issues through ongoing moderated Zoom conferences.

5. Allowing each decision affecting the future of the IDC to be decided by a simple vote of the Members on each issue.

If you want to have a Dzogchen Community with these features, then you can do something!!!!!!

You can write to the individuals who are responsible and share your thinking at:

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

[email protected]

For the “office” email, include a tag line: “Please pass to Gakyil of Merigar and responsible individuals.”

Also, write to your own Gakyils and anyone else who should be responsible for the continuation of the valid Transmission Lineage of ChNN.

Again, please think about what will happen to the reputation of the Dzogchen Community if a teaching event at Merigar becomes known as a super-spreader event? Suppose even only one person gets sick and dies, and it somehow is traceable to this event?

ChNN gave Direct Introduction, regularly on the web, using the Guru Yoga of Garab Dorje. Why can’t others do the same?

Maybe this Direct Introduction situation is a delicate matter that is critical to the success and survival of the Transmission Lineage of the Dzogchen Community. Perhaps this and other issues are deserving of further careful consideration by responsible individuals through moderated zoom conferences - before going forward.

So all jokes aside, shame, shame, shame on those administrators of the IDC who would put the reputation of the Dzogchen Community at serious risk by creating a possible super-spreader event at Merigar - for the chance to curry favor with a possible “new” Dzogchen Master of the Dzogchen Community.

Perhaps this is "absolutely wrong" and the world is watching.

Shame, Shame, Shame!!!

Most sincerely,

:heart:

Bob Kragen

PS While it is a much smaller issue, than appearing to advertize an entry into the Teachings of ChNN when it is not, the ongoing use of the phrase, “Accredited SMS Instructor” when that individual is only a base level instructor, is boldfaced fraud because the appearance is that Instructor is presenting themselves as approved by ChNN to teach all 9 levels of the SMS. Instructors who advertise themselves as SMS Instructors must include the level at which they were approved by ChNN to teach the SMS, and should note that that approval was only to teach the SMS, through that level.

It is suggested that administrators who promote false teaching credentials should resign because they are giving the Dzogchen Community a bad name.

Also, in the two communications of 2016 it was clear that SMS Instructors were not empowered to teach everything just because they were an SMS Instructor. The criteria for teaching a Secondary Practice was many times noted as “having accomplished that practice.”

Perhaps any SMS Instructors who put themselves forward as being authorized for what they are not, should not / not be allowed to teach within the IDC, as they give the IDC a bad reputation for false claims of spiritual authorization from ChNN when perhaps it is only themselves putting themselves forward for their own fame, fortune and power trip. Shame, SHAME on those Instructors who should know better and are willfully giving the IDC a bad name.

Perhaps shouting "theater" in a crowded fire (hijacking the thread with wit or scholarship) is not appropriate in a time like this where timely action on the part of Members of the IDC might avert calamity.
So on one side you ask for someone to step up and give DI and on other side you want to expell sms instructors for not specifying the lvl of sms they hold or for teaching something that doesnt correspond to that level?

What would this superspreading event be?
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by PeterC »

oldbob wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:16 amSo, what to do?????????
Bob - nobody here disagrees, I think, with your assessment of the mess we’re in. The solutions have been discussed extensively above. We’re really past the point of there being any more to say. It requires a small number of people to do, and to ignore the complaining of a larger number of people.
Perhaps shouting "theater" in a crowded fire (hijacking the thread with wit or scholarship) is not appropriate in a time like this where timely action on the part of Members of the IDC might avert calamity.
Being angry, upset or serious might be useful if it would achieve something. Here, it won’t. So to quote a great pandita: always look on the bright side of life.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

I have to say that to me that archive is one of the biggest things. Did Rinpoche have some stated idea of how it should function going into the future, did he plan it should be gated in the way it is now? If so, where did he mention it? Was there ever a set policy on how the archive should function?
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Tata1 »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:33 am I have to say that to me that archive is one of the biggest things. Did Rinpoche have some stated idea of how it should function going into the future, did he plan it should be gated in the way it is now? If so, where did he mention it? Was there ever a set policy on how the archive should function?
IDC already stated several times that they are indexing the whole thing so it will be available in the future
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Tata1 wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:47 am
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:33 am I have to say that to me that archive is one of the biggest things. Did Rinpoche have some stated idea of how it should function going into the future, did he plan it should be gated in the way it is now? If so, where did he mention it? Was there ever a set policy on how the archive should function?
IDC already stated several times that they are indexing the whole thing so it will be available in the future
How will it be gated to non-members, completely, or do they plan to release certain things?

With a dwindling membership that's a big question. Sorry to be ignorant, I am out of the loop, I quit following DC announcements.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Tata1 »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:52 am
Tata1 wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:47 am
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:33 am I have to say that to me that archive is one of the biggest things. Did Rinpoche have some stated idea of how it should function going into the future, did he plan it should be gated in the way it is now? If so, where did he mention it? Was there ever a set policy on how the archive should function?
IDC already stated several times that they are indexing the whole thing so it will be available in the future
How will it be gated to non-members, completely, or do they plan to release certain things?

With a dwindling membership that's a big question. Sorry to be ignorant, I am out of the loop, I quit following DC announcements.
I would assume its for members. Which makes sense.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Tata1 wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 3:49 am
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:52 am
Tata1 wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:47 am

IDC already stated several times that they are indexing the whole thing so it will be available in the future
How will it be gated to non-members, completely, or do they plan to release certain things?

With a dwindling membership that's a big question. Sorry to be ignorant, I am out of the loop, I quit following DC announcements.
I would assume its for members. Which makes sense.
It does with restricted material to a degree, which is likely most of it. I am not sure that it does with more general material, especially in the long term, where part of the consideration is Rinpoche's overall legacy and presence generally in Dharma media, which extends well beyond the DC membership, or at least it should.

It also means that people are paying for access to (in some cases) teachings that did not require paid membership, in any other situation this would be a pretty questionable practice. I admit the waters here are murky, but I cannot agree that paying dues should afford a complete monopoly on this material, and I think the idea that it should has a number of problems. In short, DC membership =/= transmission, and that is an issue. But Bob and others have already mentioned this, and we have probably talked it to death.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Tata1 »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 3:51 am
Tata1 wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 3:49 am
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:52 am

How will it be gated to non-members, completely, or do they plan to release certain things?

With a dwindling membership that's a big question. Sorry to be ignorant, I am out of the loop, I quit following DC announcements.
I would assume its for members. Which makes sense.
It does with restricted material to a degree, which is likely most of it. I am not sure that it does with more general material, especially in the long term, where part of the consideration is Rinpoche's overall legacy and presence generally in Dharma media, which extends well beyond the DC membership, or at least it should.

It also means that people are paying for access to (in some cases) teachings that did not require paid membership, in any other situation this would be a pretty questionable practice. I admit the waters here are murky, but I cannot agree that paying dues should afford a complete monopoly on this material, and I think the idea that it should has a number of problems. But Bob and others have already mentioned this, and we have probably talked it to death.

In short, DC membership =/= transmission, and that is an issue.
Replays have always been for members. Most dharma organizations require some income. DC is not the exception, lots of people working to keep things running. Paying a cheap membership for accesing the whole of rinpoches teachings is nothing. And if someone really cant pay there is always other options.

Now people seem to think DC is the enemy as if they are guilty for the situation. Every thing they do, at least on this forum, will be criticized.
Personally i prefer to be thankfull for all the work they have done and are doing while I stay home ranting online.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Tata1 wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:05 am

Replays have always been for members. Most dharma organizations require some income. DC is not the exception, lots of people working to keep things running. Paying a cheap membership for accesing the whole of rinpoches teachings is nothing. And if someone really cant pay there is always other options.
That's a reasonable position, but membership dues connected to brick and mortar groups in order to maintain it does not make much sense to me, it is a strange approach.
Now people seem to think DC is the enemy as if they are guilty for the situation. Every thing they do, at least on this forum, will be criticized.
Personally i prefer to be thankfull for all the work they have done and are doing while I stay home ranting online.
I don't criticize everything they do, I don't even know about that much of it. Like I said, mostly out of the loop. The DC is not amazingly organized, or at least the organization is ...different enough that it makes issues like this somewhat unique in comparison to other, more top-down groups. That's not all bad, there are some nice things about this sort of anarchic model.

For that reason, I am fine with not being able to watch replays of the webcasts I attended since I let my membership lapse, but monopolizing -all- of this stuff under the requirements of membership creates some real problems for the future, from my point of view, as plenty of open webcasts did not require it. Honestly a one-time or per-use donation/payment structure not connected to DC membership would make alot more sense for the future for the replays, particularly for people who do not attend DC events in person, and have no connection to the brick and mortar centers they are supposed to pay dues to. That setup has just never made sense to me. I am happy tossing tons of cash at SSI, (which I do) and I would be happy to pay a sizable fee for access, either one time or per-use, but I really don't get paying dues connected to a center which I will never attend or directly interact with in order to watch replays.

I do not in any way see the DC as any kind of "enemy", I see them as a somewhat opaque and eclectically organized group that was centered around a person who was the one of the important Dzogchen teachers of the century, and someone who had the most profound effect on my own spiritual life, period. Sorry, but the organization is not Him. It has it's good points, but the guilt-tripping and attempts to claim that just following whatever weird stuff people were doing in the DC following Rinpoches death was somehow following His direct legacy was enough to turn me off for now. Your mileage may vary and I'm glad it does, I don't expect anyone to be on the same page as me - a relative latecomer with no connection to in person DC sangha.

I have confidence that eventually it will work out and Rinpoche's legacy will carry forward, though right now it seems quite up in the air.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by treehuggingoctopus »

Tata1 wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:05 amNow people seem to think DC is the enemy as if they are guilty for the situation. Every thing they do, at least on this forum, will be criticized.
This is preposterous but also very revealing.

We are the DC. If we are mortally exhausted, pissed off, or despondent because of the way things are -- and we are, and we have good reasons to be -- it is because we are not quite OK with the idea that the DC (i.e., us, a organisation we are a part of) is a finished thing, nor with the fact that ChNN's teachings are in danger of not being disseminated anymore.

But the way you put it shows how alienated we, and apparently you as well, have become: as far as decision making goes, I am convinced that I have not only no power but pretty much no reliable access to crucial information. And we have been told, here, as explicitly as can be, that this is indeed the way it is -- that it is not our place to decide or have a part in deciding, and that there may be statements of ChNN's regarding the future of the DC that have not been, and may never be, made public. In this sense, indeed the DC is over 'there,' and not 'here.' And sure it can be criticised for the way the show is run.

@Robert Kragen:

This is a reason why I do not respond directly to your posts in the thread. I also spent a thousand hours over these three years talking to people who, I thought, might be able to open a door. It did not happen, and, as far as I can see, will not happen, no matter whom I address, be it at the local or at the international level, even if they fully agree that there is a problem and suggest the same solutions you do. This institution, as so many others today, is at that stage incapable of saving itself. The future is already here: as Malcolm said, an organization with no new members, smaller with each passing year, slowly losing its local centres, gradually becoming less and less active, dwindling into nothingness bit by bit.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Malcolm »

Tata1 wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:05 am Now people seem to think DC is the enemy as if they are guilty for the situation.
No, no one thinks this.

But Rinpoche left no instructions about how the DC was going to continue if, as seems to be the case, his physical heirs had no interest in continuing the DC.

So, at this point, the DC, while quite active at present, is moribund.

But its ok. There are hundreds of tertons who left huge collections of treasures that are no longer practice by anyone, anywhere, anymore. Only dribs and drabs of this and that are practiced. Bits and pieces.

There is more than enough teachings out there to bring the whole world to liberation, even if no more sadhanas, tantras, etc. were ever revealed.

The DC is now closed. That's just a fact.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Sādhaka »

Malcolm wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:40 pm
Sādhaka wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:57 am (of course the lower is always subsumed within the higher, and also always within context)
So I guess libertarianism is basically at the śrāvaka level, politically speaking.

Well I would say that for anyone who is not on the Bhumis, politics altogether is at or below the level of the vehicle of gods & men.
Last edited by Sādhaka on Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Django »

From Norbunet:
Introduction to the Dzogchen Community - Opening the Door to Practice
with authorized Santi Maha Sangha instructor Steven Landsberg

Date: Saturday mornings in October, beginning Oct 9th
Time: 10:30am - 12:00pm ET - NYC time via Zoom

Time converter: https://www.worldtimebuddy.com/

Join authorized Santi Maha Sangha instructor Steven Landsberg for this month-long course, held on Saturday mornings. You will have the opportunity to continue in certain practices following this course. Recording will be made available for those who have registered for the course.

Please prepare to attend entire course, not for drop-in sessions. It is required that all participants have their camera turned on, as one would be present in a live course. If you don‘t have a camera on your device, please consider getting a USB camera in time for the course. Many thanks!

Audience: This class is geared towards practitioners seriously interested in receiving Dzogchen transmission when available or for current students of Chögyal Namkhai Norbu interested in getting more acquainted with practices from a fabulous authorized instructor!

Subjects to be covered: GuruYoga, Refuge and Bodhichitta, Ganapuja

Zoom link: Link will be e-mailed to everyone signed up the day prior to the class. Or access here (log-in and password required).

To register join the course email list:
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Suggested Course Fee: $100 for entire course. Everyone welcome regardless of ability to pay. If you cannot use Paypal due to country restrictions, see Bank Wire info below.
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The following restricted books are now available to members of the International Dzogchen Community to supplement this class without requiring transmission.

https://www.tsegyalgar.org/tsegyalgar-e ... ted-books/

With gratitude,

Tsegyalgar East Gakyil

For questions contact: [email protected]

Steven Landsberg went to India in 1967 and spent almost ten years there studying Indian classical music and Tibetan Buddhism. After returning to the United States, he had the fortunate opportunity to meet Chögyal Namkhai Norbu and be introduced to the view and practise of Dzogchen. Steven immersed himself in the Santi Maha Sangha program which Rinpoche started in the 1990s and became an active participant in the establishment of Tashi Gar Norte in 2002. He served on their Gakyil or Board from 2008-2013. Rinpoche authorized him to teach in 2010 and he has been travelling throughout South America and Europe giving courses on the Santi Maha Sangha base during the last eight years, and giving public courses on mindful presence. He is currently serving as the president of the International Dzogchen Community.
Giovanni
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Giovanni »

Malcolm wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:30 pm
Tata1 wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:05 am Now people seem to think DC is the enemy as if they are guilty for the situation.
No, no one thinks this.

But Rinpoche left no instructions about how the DC was going to continue if, as seems to be the case, his physical heirs had no interest in continuing the DC.

So, at this point, the DC, while quite active at present, is moribund.

But its ok. There are hundreds of tertons who left huge collections of treasures that are no longer practice by anyone, anywhere, anymore. Only dribs and drabs of this and that are practiced. Bits and pieces.

There is more than enough teachings out there to bring the whole world to liberation, even if no more sadhanas, tantras, etc. were ever revealed.

The DC is now closed. That's just a fact.
I think this is clearly the case. But at the moment there is a lot of denial.. In the end denial of this kind is simply a refusal of the riches we have inherited.
Malcolm
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Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Malcolm »

Sādhaka wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 3:24 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:40 pm
Sādhaka wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:57 am (of course the lower is always subsumed within the higher, and also always within context)
So I guess libertarianism is basically at the śrāvaka level, politically speaking.

Well I would say that for anyone who is not on the Bhumis, politics altogether is at or below the level of the vehicle of gods & men.
,
I am grading things based on the level of self-interest here. Of course politics is completely worldly, below vehicle of devas and humans.
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Sādhaka
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Sādhaka »

Malcolm wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:35 pm
Sādhaka wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 3:24 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:40 pm

So I guess libertarianism is basically at the śrāvaka level, politically speaking.

Well I would say that for anyone who is not on the Bhumis, politics altogether is at or below the level of the vehicle of gods & men.

I am grading things based on the level of self-interest here. Of course politics is completely worldly, below vehicle of devas and humans.

I get the comparison that you’re trying to make here; but what I’m getting at, is that if one is not on the Bhumis then any political position is going to be an result of one’s own biases, even if on the surface it seems to not be to oneself.

There is the realm of plain old common sense, and some political positions would fall under that; yet then again, Buddhists many times can’t even agree on what common sense is :|
Last edited by Sādhaka on Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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