Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Terma
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Terma »

mutsuk wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:13 pm
Terma wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:48 am
mutsuk wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:03 am
You're kidding, right?
There are enough fake teachers running around out there. For example, If one has doubts about the authenticity of the empowerment's given, or the one who has given them, then the entire foundation for which one bases there practice is on pretty shaky ground.

Not a good road to go down, IMO.
Ah OK, I thought you were wondering why one would question the authority of individuals intending to give DC empowerments, etc. So I agree, not a good road to go down with all these Khenpo Jaxon and other Banger Tulku around... As I see it, Norbu Rinpoche was a qualified master because :

1. He had a spiritual training in all (or most of) the field of buddhist culture (that includes the five sciences) and a pristine knowledge of the theories and practices of all Tibetan schools,
2. he could give direct introduction
3. he could give empowerments
4. he could give lungs
5. he made the necessary retreats up to the manifestations of signs
6. he read beyond measure about Dzogchen (and most evidently other topics)
7. he was kind enough to dedicate a large part of his life to teaching us with the benevolence and love of a father upon his children.

Basically, his knowledge of Buddhism in general and Dzogchen in particular completely qualified him. Therefore, the DC needs someone who:
1. has trained in Buddhist culture, philosophy, and practice (and not in a superficial mode),
2. can give DI
3. can give empowerments
4. can give lungs
5. has done retreats until signs
6. has studied Dzogchen beyond measure
7. shows compassion to others.

It would be worthless to accept less qualifications...
Okay, good. We are on the same page then. :thumbsup:

I agree with your sentiments as well.
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heart
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by heart »

mutsuk wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:13 pm
Terma wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:48 am
mutsuk wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:03 am
You're kidding, right?
There are enough fake teachers running around out there. For example, If one has doubts about the authenticity of the empowerment's given, or the one who has given them, then the entire foundation for which one bases there practice is on pretty shaky ground.

Not a good road to go down, IMO.
Ah OK, I thought you were wondering why one would question the authority of individuals intending to give DC empowerments, etc. So I agree, not a good road to go down with all these Khenpo Jaxon and other Banger Tulku around... As I see it, Norbu Rinpoche was a qualified master because :

1. He had a spiritual training in all (or most of) the field of buddhist culture (that includes the five sciences) and a pristine knowledge of the theories and practices of all Tibetan schools,
2. he could give direct introduction
3. he could give empowerments
4. he could give lungs
5. he made the necessary retreats up to the manifestations of signs
6. he read beyond measure about Dzogchen (and most evidently other topics)
7. he was kind enough to dedicate a large part of his life to teaching us with the benevolence and love of a father upon his children.

Basically, his knowledge of Buddhism in general and Dzogchen in particular completely qualified him. Therefore, the DC needs someone who:
1. has trained in Buddhist culture, philosophy, and practice (and not in a superficial mode),
2. can give DI
3. can give empowerments
4. can give lungs
5. has done retreats until signs
6. has studied Dzogchen beyond measure
7. shows compassion to others.

It would be worthless to accept less qualifications...
:good: The only reason this is so complicated is the idea that only ChNNR know how to give direct introduction.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
Damchö_Dorje
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Damchö_Dorje »

Question: What practices do students of ChNN do for the bardo? Are there practices to benefit sentient beings in the bardo? How do those beings benefit from our practices?
Sherab Rigdrol
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Sherab Rigdrol »

If one has transmission:
Shitro
Purification of the Six Lokas
Chang Chog Ritual
Tara
And if you are a really confident practitioner, Phowa.

However, Rinpoche’s #1 recommendation for the deceased was almost alwsys Shitro.

These practices help the deceased make a connection with the teachings for future lives. Again, if we have a little juice in our practice we may assist them in purifying some obscurations while they are between lives. Making their journey less windy ;)
oldbob
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by oldbob »

Dear all and All,

Bardo ideas

I am not saying these things to brag. I 100% believe that if I can do these things that anyone can.

I think that many are afraid to try, so I am telling my stories, so you shouldn’t be afraid.

Many years ago, in the late 1970’s, I was living at a farmhouse in NJ where a farmer had died, and his ghost was frightening the residents. I was practicing the Nundro, so I was familiar with going into absorption into the 3 lights and one light. So, I was not afraid. I called the spirit of the farmer. I spoke to him firmly, explaining that now he was dead, that he should stop bothering people and it was time for him to enter the light. He grumbled and agreed. I directed his spirit into light and he no longer bothered the residents of the farmhouse.

I was fortunate to be the caretaker of my mother for a year while she was dying of cancer.

I was fortunate to be with my mother when she died. I was using a sponge with water to moisten her dry lips.

When my mother made her last breath, I kissed her on the forehead and she was warm.

A minute later I kissed her on the forehead and she was cold. This was a real teaching from my mother that informs me 24/7.

I called on her spirit, said goodbye, and directed her spirit into the light. We were both very content.

So yes, ChNN taught many practices and rituals to help the dead and those in the bardo.

Most impressively ChNN taught the complete thread cross rescue ritual which was the job of the village Lama in Tibet. ChNN also allowed this to be taught openly by his students who had accomplished this practice.

http://shangshung.org/store/index.php?m ... cts_id=246

Elio taught this to a class of about 30 on his last trip to the US. Everyone who attended got the full transmission.

In essence, the idea is to contact the spirit of the dead and absorb it, non-dually into the light.

The key point of absorbing non-dually into light is featured in all religions as a practice for the living and the dying.

https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.p ... ht#p267484

and also in recently discovered Taoist resources about merging with light.

You may have to search on the name of the book if the links do not work.

Taoist-Alchemy-Wang-Liping



Daoist-Internal-Mastery-Liping-Wang



Ling-Bao-Tong-Neng-Gong



Perhaps all Dharma practice leads into merging non-dually with light.

:heart:




Elio and my mother were kindly souls, empty of self-nature, but missed.

The infinite openhearted kindness, the infinite golden intention that all should realize, of ChNN is missed.

Bob Kragen

:heart:
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khemmis
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by khemmis »

Anyone would be so kind to walk me through the first lines of Adzom Drukpa Sang? Maybe via the private message? I know general meaning but do not remember corresponding visualizations to these lines:

RAM YAM KHAM
OM A HUM HA HO HRI
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Virgo
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Virgo »

I think that is where they are just transformed into bliss nectar.

Virgo
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mechashivaz
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by mechashivaz »

khemmis wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:48 pm Anyone would be so kind to walk me through the first lines of Adzom Drukpa Sang? Maybe via the private message? I know general meaning but do not remember corresponding visualizations to these lines:

RAM YAM KHAM
OM A HUM HA HO HRI
Get the book (or ebook) Sang & Serkyem, Rinpoche breaks it down line by line. Also get the mp3 if you don't know the melody. Rinpoche used to stress over and over the importance of using the proper melodies, connecting us with the transmission.
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Karma_Yeshe
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Karma_Yeshe »

Dear Old Bob,

many of us can do various things, of this I have no doubt.
Question is, how to do it in a way that many people have benefit from it.

I always appreaciate your posts from the bottom of my heart.

Karma Yeshe
oldbob
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by oldbob »

Shine on brightly!

Collaborate as you are able.

:heart:
oldbob
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by oldbob »

and so it can be as simple as planting a wish.

May anyone seeing my last post realize in this lifetime.

May anyone who did not see my last post realize in this lifetime.

Of course, the wish has to be a special wish - big as the universe.

:heart:
oldbob
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by oldbob »

If you go to Merigar – Courses and Events – Reserved for Practitioners – you will find:

https://www.merigar.it/en/courses-and-e ... ati-nazer/

The most important points on the View, Meditation, Behavior and Fruit
Only for those who have received the Transmission.
Retreat on “The most important points on the View, Meditation, Behavior and Fruit, or Ati Nazer” held at Merigar by Chögyal Namkhai Norbu in June 2015.
The retreat will consist in following the videos of the Teachings given by the Master at Merigar and related explanations and practices, led by Santi Maha Sangha Base instructors.
Furthermore, October 31st falls on the Anniversary of Master Adzom Drugpa, and is one of the days on which the Master used to give the Worldwide Transmission. We will do the Worldwide Guruyoga Practice together, simultaneously all over the world, via webcast.
The retreat will be webcast in full, in English with Italian translation.

____________________________________________

It appears that you do not have to register to listen to the webcast.

Sometimes it takes years for planted causes to come to fruition. Please read carefully #1. Perhaps the other seeds will also bear fruit if enough Members write to the IG and Gakyils.

Maybe they can give the transmission before playing the recording so that all newcomers could attend and get the benefit.

This was sent out to the IG, and others, on October 15, 2019.

________________________________________________

Hi all and All,

Now that the year of reflection is over perhaps it is appropriate to address several items of importance to our community. I would like to speak at the next Tseygyalgar East Gakyil meeting and put the following items on the table for future discussion and resolution.

1. There needs to be a way for the transmission of Direct Introduction to continue. For example, this could be by having a weekly transmission from the Spirit of ChNNR to the entire community every Sunday at 1 PM, Merigar time. Sounding the AH, or the Guru Yoga of the White Ah of Garab Dorje, could be used to allow for Direct Introduction. This could be on the web and led by one of the accepted old-timers such as Adriano or Elio, or others. Then the IDC can continue. Without allowing for a means of Direct Introduction, the IDC will not survive. For new members to do any of the Dzogchen practices, they first need a Direct Introduction.

2. It is suggested that there be an annual gathering where lineage holders of each of the 150 + Secondary Practices of ChNNR can read (give the lung for) each practice and give a short explanation (transmission) of each practice. Then all the Secondary Practices will be preserved. As of now, SSI only supports the 35 or so "Collective Practices." The annual gathering for the transmission of the Secondary Practices could be from the day after Christmas until the transmission is finished, or it could be held mid-Summer when many have vacations.

3. The establishment, at Tseygyalgar, and at the other major Gars, of a copy of the Digital Archive with an endowment set up to allow it to be re-copied every 5 years if kept on computers, or every 75 years if kept on archival DVDs.

The Digital Archives need to be harmonized and matched to a master list of all the retreats. This list does not currently exist. Where there are retreats that are missing, or gaps, the place of the original retreat needs to be contacted so as to allow for obtaining copies of the original tapes of the retreat. These need to then be digitized and added to the archives.

This should be done soonest, so that this can be accomplished before the original tapes are lost forever.

I fear that there are many retreats that are not in the archives in total, because the originals were lost at Merigar. I also fear that many retreats are only partially in the archive because the original tapes sent to Merigar, were stored in conditions of extremes of heat and cold which damaged the tapes.

The Digital Archive needs to be cataloged and transcribed to support practice. It is clear that this responsibility needs to be addressed in collaboration with SSI as they appear to be in need of our support and collaboration.

4. The issue of who can teach the Secondary Practices needs to be addressed. ChNNR always said that the old-timers could help teach the newcomers. Maybe there needs to be a College of Old Timers, who are vetted by the IDC. There needs to be a list of lineage holders for each of the Secondary Practices and this list needs to be updated on a regular basis.

Some people are saying that ChNNR said that only SMS Instructors can teach the Secondary Practices. This is just not true. ChNNR did say that only SMS teachers can teach SMS, and this makes sense.

5. The Statutes and Membership papers of the IDC need to be reviewed so as to better reflect Democratic values and to better meet the needs of the IDC for the Future.

6. It is suggested that there be a vetted discussion website where all of the issues facing the future of the IDC can be discussed. Dharma Wheel, while serving some of the functions of this site is not a solution because it is not moderated by members of the IDC.

https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=4052

Norbunet serves the purpose of timely advisories, and the Mirror serves the purpose of sharing larger articles. What I am talking about is a discussion site where newcomers can get advice on practice form the old-timers / SMS instructors, and where issues facing the IDC can be discussed in a safe and supportive environment. This would be a closed site for members only with a user name and password to protect access.

Perhaps a different site, also moderated by the IDC, could be open and address questions from newcomers.

It is requested that the Tseygyalgar Gakyil prepare motions relating to the above 6 items to be submitted to the IDC for a vote and action at the next annual meeting.

Please forgive me if I am writing too much but I am 74 years old and don't know how much longer I will live. The key point is that the very precious transmission of Direct Introduction, and transmission of all of the Secondary Practices taught by ChNNR, in over 550 retreats, should continue.


Please let me know what you think and feel free to share this with whomever you want to.
Respectfully Submitted,

Robert Kragen

______________________________________

:heart:
Norwegian
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Norwegian »

Dzogchen Community, Merigar wrote:Only for those who have received the Transmission.
In case you missed it. But maybe you deliberately ignored it?
oldbob wrote:Maybe they can give the transmission before playing the recording so that all newcomers could attend and get the benefit.
They can't. And do you know why? Chögyal Namkhai Norbu always said, again and again, over and over all the time: In order to receive the transmission, it must happen live and directly. It must be a collaboration between the teacher and the student. A RECORDING DOES NOT COUNT AND IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

Why do you constantly ignore what Chögyal Namkhai Norbu taught? And why do you constantly try to tell people, for example new people, that it's OK to go against the wishes of Rinpoche, to suggest something he said not to do?

Your view goes against the view of Rinpoche, and that you keep repeating this despite people pointing this out to you, and that you constantly try to manipulate and twist and turn and bypass Rinpoche's words like this, the way you do, is really disappointing.
Giovanni
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Giovanni »

Norwegian wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:21 pm
Dzogchen Community, Merigar wrote:Only for those who have received the Transmission.
In case you missed it. But maybe you deliberately ignored it?
oldbob wrote:Maybe they can give the transmission before playing the recording so that all newcomers could attend and get the benefit.
They can't. And do you know why? Chögyal Namkhai Norbu always said, again and again, over and over all the time: In order to receive the transmission, it must happen live and directly. It must be a collaboration between the teacher and the student. A RECORDING DOES NOT COUNT AND IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

Why do you constantly ignore what Chögyal Namkhai Norbu taught? And why do you constantly try to tell people, for example new people, that it's OK to go against the wishes of Rinpoche, to suggest something he said not to do?

Your view goes against the view of Rinpoche, and that you keep repeating this despite people pointing this out to you, and that you constantly try to manipulate and twist and turn and bypass Rinpoche's words like this, the way you do, is really disappointing.
:good:
It’s become very tedious.
Arnoud
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Arnoud »

I think Bob’s idea to save Rinpoche’s teaching archive is a great one and bears repeating over and over.
Although his solution for providing new students access to the archive or new teachings seems far-fetched and unrealistic, the fact that he is unwilling to give up should give him some credit. No matter how annoyed one may get by his posts.
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Könchok Thrinley
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

Arnoud wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:21 pm I think Bob’s idea to save Rinpoche’s teaching archive is a great one and bears repeating over and over.
Although his solution for providing new students access to the archive or new teachings seems far-fetched and unrealistic, the fact that he is unwilling to give up should give him some credit. No matter how annoyed one may get by his posts.
I mean we are free not to read those posts. However, I am afraid this thread, nor even forum is the right place for these ideas to be broadcasted. Not because they don't belong here, but mostly because they should be presented within a DC to DC members etc. Here they won't do much good. :coffee:
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.

- Arya Sanghata Sutra
Tata1
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Tata1 »

Arnoud wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:21 pm I think Bob’s idea to save Rinpoche’s teaching archive is a great one and bears repeating over and over.
Although his solution for providing new students access to the archive or new teachings seems far-fetched and unrealistic, the fact that he is unwilling to give up should give him some credit. No matter how annoyed one may get by his posts.

The archive is being digitalized as it has been stated by the dc several times.

Also the problem with the spirit of Chnn thing is not that its far fetched, the problem is that it contradicts the teaching
Tata1
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Tata1 »

Arnoud wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:21 pm I think Bob’s idea to save Rinpoche’s teaching archive is a great one and bears repeating over and over.
Although his solution for providing new students access to the archive or new teachings seems far-fetched and unrealistic, the fact that he is unwilling to give up should give him some credit. No matter how annoyed one may get by his posts.
Besides posting the same thing 10 times is spamming
oldbob
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by oldbob »

Politics???

The upcoming webcast includes a live "worldwide transmission."

https://www.merigar.it/en/courses-and-e ... ati-nazer/

Nowhere does it say that the worldwide transmission is a recording.

The worldwide transmission is a live event - open to all followers of ChNN - followed by a recording of a ChNN retreat combined with live instructions.

From the advertisement for the program:
_________________________________________________
Dates: October 29-November 2

Schedule: Friday 17-19:15

Saturday 10-12 and 16-18

Sunday 10-14 and 16-19:15

Monday 10-12 and 16-18

Tuesday 10-13

Mode: onsite and online (via webcast, no registration required)

REGISTER ON SITE

NO REGISTRATION NEEDED TO FOLLOW THE WEBCAST

_______________________________________________________

No registration means that it is open to anyone who shows up. This is how ChNN taught both for the retreat being played from recording and all the other retreats as well. The Yangtig and Togyal retreats required a letter of request but all requests were granted.

I think it is fine for newcomers to receive a worldwide transmission from the collective of the practitioners attending the worldwide transmission. If others feel differently, I respect their right to state their views.

This is compleatly different from saying that you can receive a transmission from a recording - though several important Lamas are allowing that.

That is a different question, and again, the traditional allowance of receiving permission through dream or vision must also be accommodated.

The key point is that newcomers need an easy and regular way to receive a valid DIrect Introduction.

The newcomers also need an easy and regular way for receiving a lung reading for each Secondary Practice.

The key point is to help the newcomers get access to ChNN and his precious Teachings in a valid way that works for them to be able to do the practice and get the benefit.

:heart:
Malcolm
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Malcolm »

oldbob wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:28 pm
Nowhere does it say that the worldwide transmission is a recording.

The worldwide transmission is a live event
Furthermore, October 31st falls on the Anniversary of Master Adzom Drugpa, and is one of the days on which the Master used to give the Worldwide Trasmission. . We will do the Worldwide Guruyoga Practice together, simultaneously all over the world, via webcast.

No transmission given here bob.
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