The point of that story is that ChNN was being too cautious and allowing his instructions to go to waste because he was not applying them.
And appearances in a dream are just ones own mind, nothing else. ChNN had a remarkable mind.
The point of that story is that ChNN was being too cautious and allowing his instructions to go to waste because he was not applying them.
My point was really that it is nobodies business but each student and their guru what they do and how they apply those practices, everything else is just gossip and assumptions that we make about our vajra siblings. People have to be responsible for themselves, organizational policing and squabbling about who can do this or cant do that is just pointless.
I feel you.Josef wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:33 pm
My point was really that it is nobodies business but each student and their guru what they do and how they apply those practices, everything else is just gossip and assumptions that we make about our vajra siblings. People have to be responsible for themselves, organizational policing and squabbling about who can do this or cant do that is just pointless.
No, I am not sure that it is.
Some years ago I read about a lama in China that ChNN authorized to teach (not sure about DI). I thought this was in the area to where ChNN had visited before and was planning to return. I don't recall his name though. I think it was innThe Melong.
One Khenpo Yeshe Wangpo aka Yeshi Wangpo. "Kenpo Yeshe Wangpo I have already authorized to teach several different practices," writes Rinpoche in the 2016 letter.Dorje Shedrub wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:57 pmSome years ago I read about a lama in China that ChNN authorized to teach (not sure about DI). I thought this was in the area to where ChNN had visited before and was planning to return. I don't recall his name though. I think it was in The Melong.
No one understand this.Dorje Shedrub wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:02 pm Does anyone know why Yeshe would require a non-disclosure agreement? I don't understand this.
Perhaps he has been advised by counsel to try and conceal his statements and activities with the DC so that it does not have some sort of potentially negative effect on his professional life.Dorje Shedrub wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:02 pm Does anyone know why Yeshe would require a non-disclosure agreement? I don't understand this.
Just to refresh my memory: when he did his retreats to actualize all this tantras and methods?tinylocusta wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:09 pm Regarding Yeshi. (...) He has very deep knowledge of tantras and various methods of practice, especially the three series of Dzogchen, but also Vajrayana.
tinylocusta wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:09 pm Regarding Yeshi. It is obvious to me that many people seriously underestimate Him... I won't elaborate more as everybody knows He doesn't like when one speaks of Him in this way and I want to respect that, but seriously, people need to realize how extremely lucky we are to have such a person alive
Yes, for me, for example, I was doing my SMS I Level traning with Yeshi also. I mean, he was sitting next to me and was taking part in the training. I was naturaly expecting he will stand up as a teacher and lead community. Its normal to have family lineages. But then he said he dont believe in all reincarnation and "tibetan folklore" and so on....krodha wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:53 pmtinylocusta wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:09 pm Regarding Yeshi. It is obvious to me that many people seriously underestimate Him... I won't elaborate more as everybody knows He doesn't like when one speaks of Him in this way and I want to respect that, but seriously, people need to realize how extremely lucky we are to have such a person alive
The concerned parties in this thread would probably feel a great deal “luckier” if Yeshi actually demonstrated interest in leading the DC.
And Rinpoche made it very clear that everyone in the DC is to follow the base of SMS. So then?tinylocusta wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:09 pm
There are so many things people are confused about here. A simple example: the empowerments for the three inner tantras mentioned in the Precious Vase. When you read that fragment it is clear it is for people following the SMS training, and during this training there is something to learn about each of these.
Dzogchen is part of Mantra. Without empowerment, no Dzogchen. You want citations? I can give you many.As entering the way of Mantra without receiving an initiation is negative, of course.
Since Rinpoche never gave the Guhyagarbha or long Anuyoga empowerment, his suggestion that people should receive then could only mean that people should seek out qualified teachers elsewhere, and receive them.Rinpoche describes it and gives some alternatives for people who can't do that. It is perfectly normal. The suggestion that what Rinpoche was giving to everybody for His whole life works only if you are extremely lucky and that now people should flock to other teachers to receive Dupa Do and Guhyagarbha makes no sense!
It takes three days.(btw when you go to Blye [???} to receive Guhyagarbha you may want to ask earlier if you receive the whole thing, because normally it's given in parts.)
No, they are not.Such statements are in direct contradiction to what He was teaching.
So now you are in a position to tell people what they ought and ought not do? You are just an anonymous voice on the internet, hiding behind a nym. If you had any courage whatsoever, you would post in your real name.Instead of receiving these initiations, people who haven't woken up should repeat what they received and sing the SoV. Of course if someone is doing SMS and studies the three inner tantras, that's a different thing.
There are a lot of people in the DC who have been following Rinpoche for years, who still know nothing. It's not his fault. But it's good they have faith in him. At least that much will gain them birth in a dharma family in their next life.Some things seem to be said just for the sake of being said, I see no other reason. For example that people don't understand the qualifications of the teacher because they prefer to party...
And people never read these things. Or if they read them, they forget them, and so on.Anyone who follows SMS is well aware of these things, regardless of their leisure preferences. In the Precious Vase Rinpoche quotes several pages about the necessary qualifications of teachers from Adzom Drugpa and Patrul Rinpoche.
There are many more false things written here but I feel like I would act wrongly by discussing them.
No one is blaming anyone for anything. We are just observing the real situation. The real situation is that the DC Is dead in the water and sinking fast. All compounded things are impermanent. C'est la vie.Also, for everything I've written above you can easily find 10 counter-arguments and discuss these ad nauseam. I have no interest in these kinds of discussions; what I'm asking you - that is people blaming everybody outside - to reflect a bit how much of it is a projection of your minds and how beneficial or harmful are the things you write here.
Virgotinylocusta wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:09 pm Specifically, He is one of very few people who can guide modern people in an authentic way, without mixing teachings with modern inventions or making anything up.
He actually said it would be like Buddha's original sangha of monks, which broke into eighteen divisions. And that division was foretold by a dream of King Kṛkin, during the time of Buddha Kāśyapa. Kṛkin had a dream where he saw eighteen men tugging on one sheet of cloth, but the Buddha Kāśyapa interpreted the dream for him, saying it represented the sangha of Buddha Śākyamuni splitting into eighteen divisions, but the cloth itself would remain whole.
You know I forgot about that completely. This is direct evidence that Rinpoche either knew directly or felt very, very strongly that this would happen, because he fully believed this.Malcolm wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:40 pm He actually said it would be like Buddha's original sangha of monks, which broke into eighteen divisions. And that division was foretold by a dream of King Kṛkin, during the time of Buddha Kāśyapa. Kṛkin had a dream where he saw eighteen men tugging on one sheet of cloth, but the Buddha Kāśyapa interpreted the dream for him, saying it represented the sangha of Buddha Śākyamuni splitting into eighteen divisions, but the cloth itself would remain whole.
The reality is that people have opinions, some people are threatened by those opinions, and make samaya threats, etc., forgetting that they are just imposing limitations on other people, trying to shut down uncomfortable conversations.Virgo wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:55 pmYou know I forgot about that completely. This is direct evidence that Rinpoche either knew directly or felt very, very strongly that this would happen, because he fully believed this.Malcolm wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:40 pm He actually said it would be like Buddha's original sangha of monks, which broke into eighteen divisions. And that division was foretold by a dream of King Kṛkin, during the time of Buddha Kāśyapa. Kṛkin had a dream where he saw eighteen men tugging on one sheet of cloth, but the Buddha Kāśyapa interpreted the dream for him, saying it represented the sangha of Buddha Śākyamuni splitting into eighteen divisions, but the cloth itself would remain whole.
Virgo
The thing is, the DC (or parts of it) are sometimes close to being a sect. I am sick and tired of hearing DC people denigrating other Vajrayana teachers and other Vajrayana traditions. There is that story that the DC is entirely and objectively superior to absolutely every other sangha, because here one can "practice Dzogchen" straightaway, instead of "wasting time" on ngondro or yidam or whatever Tibetan nonsense "those lower-capacity people" tend to "waste time" on; all one needs is Guuru Yoga three times daily, and bam! magick (entirely unavailable to those poor lower capacity morons) happens; no need to exert oneself, or learn fancy complicated things, or spend hours daily practising (which is so great! Since it means one can be a great Dzogchenpa while also pursuing eight worldly dharmas to satiety). In such a reality, obviously one has no need of getting Dupa Do or Guhyagarbha, or "wasting time" on such medieval nonsense as Three Roots practice.Malcolm wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:04 pmSince Rinpoche never gave the Guhyagarbha or long Anuyoga empowerment, his suggestion that people should receive then could only mean that people should seek out qualified teachers elsewhere, and receive them.tinylocusta wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:09 pmRinpoche describes it and gives some alternatives for people who can't do that. It is perfectly normal. The suggestion that what Rinpoche was giving to everybody for His whole life works only if you are extremely lucky and that now people should flock to other teachers to receive Dupa Do and Guhyagarbha makes no sense!
It takes three days.(btw when you go to Blye [???} to receive Guhyagarbha you may want to ask earlier if you receive the whole thing, because normally it's given in parts.)