Buddhahood In This Life

[Shaiksha]

For anyone who’s received Dzogchen empowerment and the lung for the Tsig Don Mdzod, I cannot recommend highly enough that you study Khenchen Namdrol’s commentary on it. It’s as exhaustive as it gets—and times exhaustING to slog through—but if you go slowly and persevere through it, you will benefit immensely.

Any Dzogchen teaching received qualifies? Doesn't have to be from a specific cycle/lineage.....Even if you have Dzogchen transmissions from outside Nyingma?

Hi Passing By,

Here are the requirements for reading the book and its commentaries stated on Berotsa's website (the publisher of the translation):

The Precious Treasury book is restricted and may be acquired by practitioners of the Great Perfection who have received complete empowerment into the Quintessential Cycle of the Atiyoga vehicle. This would mean having received any one of the following empowerments: the Nyingtig Yabzhi, Tigle Gyachen, Yeshe Lama empowerment, Nyingtig Tsa Pod empowerment’s, and/or the specific empowerment that introduces the wisdom awareness nature of mind. In addition, the practitioner must receive the reading transmission (Lung) for this text when the opportunity arises.

Hope this helps.

[Pema Rigdzin]

Yes, as long as the empowerment(s) stem(s) from the Yang Sang Lana Mepai Kor aka Nyingthig section of Menngagde (which virtually all Dzogchen teaching one’s gonna encounter these days are).

[Passing By]

Thanks both

[PRESTONCHRISTIAN23]

Hello dear friends and dear Malcolm. Wow that was beyond the magical experience. I won't go into my personal experiences as I would like more time to integrate put needless to say wow.

This is my first experience with any of these teachings and randomly I was drawn to it and was glued to my bed for over 20 hours. I ended up skipping work on Monday just to finish it up. Boy was it worth it.

So have a little Mercy on a newbie like me I believe you answered it earlier but just to make sure because there's a lot of jargon that I wasn't familiar about so thank you for being nice with me. So if I receive the 17 tantras this past weekend am I able to read the buddhahood in this life? I am aware that is best to get the lung for that specifically, but does the 17 tantras allow me to be connected to where I can read that?

Also I think you mentioned it earlier but I don't know if you are referring to the same thing, so I'll reask. Do we know when buddhahood in this life lung will be presented, or potentially who in America gives these out? I am in Southern Louisiana if anybody has any recommendations.

Thank you very very much once again.

[Miorita]

Hello Preston!
I see you found your way proud and gliding across the floor of my room.
Direct your questions in an organized pattern and manner to Malcolm and other seasoned people here and they'll gladly assist you!

dear Miorita

[Miorita]

In order to read the book, we had to have the lung. I may have started reading it, I may have bought it or not, but clearly it states that you have to have the lung. And at the time, Tulku Dakpa R. gave the lung. And he gave us the lung for the 17 tantras now.
That is all I can assist you with.

[Malcolm]

but does the 17 tantras allow me to be connected to where I can read that?

If you have received Dzogchen transmission and some teachings already, then I think it is ok. If you have not, then maybe it is better to find a teacher first.

[Archie2009]

but does the 17 tantras allow me to be connected to where I can read that?

If you have received Dzogchen transmission and some teachings already, then I think it is ok. If you have not, then maybe it is better to find a teacher first.

Let's say you have received Dzogchen transmission and some teachings and perhaps some more. In the information session you mentioned that everything in the Tshig don mdzod, but also basically everything in Lonchenpa's writings is based on the man ngag sde 17 tantras. Wouldn't that then basically also hold for every Heart Essence Dzogchen text composed after him? So you could read almost anything with the intention of getting the lung afterwards as soon as the opportunity presents itself? Let's say Wonderous Dance of Illusion on which the publisher of the English translation has tagged a restriction for possession of the lung. I think this particular restriction came at the request of Chatral Rinpoche, but I personally think it is silly since there is (probably) no such restriction attached to the Tibetan original.

[stoneinfocus]

but does the 17 tantras allow me to be connected to where I can read that?

If you have received Dzogchen transmission and some teachings already, then I think it is ok. If you have not, then maybe it is better to find a teacher first.

Let's say you have received Dzogchen transmission and some teachings and perhaps some more. In the information session you mentioned that everything in the Tshig don mdzod, but also basically everything in Lonchenpa's writings is based on the man ngag sde 17 tantras. Wouldn't that then basically also hold for every Heart Essence Dzogchen text composed after him? So you could read almost anything with the intention of getting the lung afterwards as soon as the opportunity presents itself? Let's say Wonderous Dance of Illusion on which the publisher of the English translation has tagged a restriction for possession of the lung. I think this particular restriction came at the request of Chatral Rinpoche, but I personally think it is silly since there is (probably) no such restriction attached to the Tibetan original.

Not to speak for Malcolm, as I know he can and likely will respond with his own thoughts that hold much more weight than my own, but you should listen to your teachers and what they have to say. Many will give you these permissions, or permission to read specific texts without the lung explicitly. Ideally, your teacher is the one to tell you what you should personally be studying. If Malcolm is one of your teachers, then great, ignore whatever I say and listen to him.

In general, you're responsible for yourself. Nobody is stopping you from reading whatever text. However, Malcolm himself has said that if he is serious about a certain teaching or text, he will make every effort he can to get the lung for it. Masters like Chatral Rinpoche have these restrictions for a reason. Chatral Rinpoche is not going to come down and smack you on the head if you disobey him and don't get the lung or permission from your teacher, but getting the lung or at least permission and making the proper connection is how it should really be done. If Malcolm is NOT one of your teachers, I think you're better off asking your own teachers rather than trying to obtain a permission from him on a public forum.

[Archie2009]

If you have received Dzogchen transmission and some teachings already, then I think it is ok. If you have not, then maybe it is better to find a teacher first.

Let's say you have received Dzogchen transmission and some teachings and perhaps some more. In the information session you mentioned that everything in the Tshig don mdzod, but also basically everything in Lonchenpa's writings is based on the man ngag sde 17 tantras. Wouldn't that then basically also hold for every Heart Essence Dzogchen text composed after him? So you could read almost anything with the intention of getting the lung afterwards as soon as the opportunity presents itself? Let's say Wonderous Dance of Illusion on which the publisher of the English translation has tagged a restriction for possession of the lung. I think this particular restriction came at the request of Chatral Rinpoche, but I personally think it is silly since there is (probably) no such restriction attached to the Tibetan original.

In general, you're responsible for yourself. Nobody is stopping you from reading whatever text.

Publishers are when their restrictions are not advisory but amount to restricted sale.

Anyway, my point was that after receiving the lung for the 17 tantras, since their information content covers the entirety of the highest man ngag sde teachings, and since this means they could stand in for a lung for Buddhahood in this Life and Tshig don mdzod, they could potentially stand in for a lung for any later man ngag sde text since no new ground is covered. And as i stated, the idea would be to get the lung for the text in question as soon as an opportunity presented itself anyway. (And, of course, one would have to have received Dzogchen transmission and some teachings already.)

[Malcolm]

but does the 17 tantras allow me to be connected to where I can read that?

If you have received Dzogchen transmission and some teachings already, then I think it is ok. If you have not, then maybe it is better to find a teacher first.

Let's say you have received Dzogchen transmission and some teachings and perhaps some more. In the information session you mentioned that everything in the Tshig don mdzod, but also basically everything in Lonchenpa's writings is based on the man ngag sde 17 tantras. Wouldn't that then basically also hold for every Heart Essence Dzogchen text composed after him? So you could read almost anything with the intention of getting the lung afterwards as soon as the opportunity presents itself? Let's say Wonderous Dance of Illusion on which the publisher of the English translation has tagged a restriction for possession of the lung. I think this particular restriction came at the request of Chatral Rinpoche, but I personally think it is silly since there is (probably) no such restriction attached to the Tibetan original.

That's something you must decide for yourself. And yes, you can download that autobio from BDRC with no problem. Other texts of his are restricted, meaning you cannot download them.

[PeterC]

Anyway, my point was that after receiving the lung for the 17 tantras, since their information content covers the entirety of the highest man ngag sde teachings, and since this means they could stand in for a lung for Buddhahood in this Life and Tshig don mdzod, they could potentially stand in for a lung for any later man ngag sde text since no new ground is covered. And as i stated, the idea would be to get the lung for the text in question as soon as an opportunity presented itself anyway. (And, of course, one would have to have received Dzogchen transmission and some teachings already.)

Doesn’t work like that. Basically it’s dealer’s choice. The lama who holds the transmission decides who can receive it and under what conditions. The fact that you’ve received something similar from someone else doesn’t obviate that requirement. Sure, no terma contains much beyond the content of the 17 tantras. But that doesn’t mean you can pick up and read any text from any terma.

[Natan]

Anyway, my point was that after receiving the lung for the 17 tantras, since their information content covers the entirety of the highest man ngag sde teachings, and since this means they could stand in for a lung for Buddhahood in this Life and Tshig don mdzod, they could potentially stand in for a lung for any later man ngag sde text since no new ground is covered. And as i stated, the idea would be to get the lung for the text in question as soon as an opportunity presented itself anyway. (And, of course, one would have to have received Dzogchen transmission and some teachings already.)

Doesn’t work like that. Basically it’s dealer’s choice. The lama who holds the transmission decides who can receive it and under what conditions. The fact that you’ve received something similar from someone else doesn’t obviate that requirement. Sure, no terma contains much beyond the content of the 17 tantras. But that doesn’t mean you can pick up and read any text from any terma.

If one has a rigpa'i t'sal bwang one can pretty much pick up anything from Guhyagarbha and everything related with Dzogchen and study it. Practice of mantra requires specific empowerments. But a rigpa'i t'sal bwang and 17 tantras, once you understand what you are reading what was introduced is on another level and is quite honestly a different path that supercedes and includes all others.

[stoneinfocus]

Let's say you have received Dzogchen transmission and some teachings and perhaps some more. In the information session you mentioned that everything in the Tshig don mdzod, but also basically everything in Lonchenpa's writings is based on the man ngag sde 17 tantras. Wouldn't that then basically also hold for every Heart Essence Dzogchen text composed after him? So you could read almost anything with the intention of getting the lung afterwards as soon as the opportunity presents itself? Let's say Wonderous Dance of Illusion on which the publisher of the English translation has tagged a restriction for possession of the lung. I think this particular restriction came at the request of Chatral Rinpoche, but I personally think it is silly since there is (probably) no such restriction attached to the Tibetan original.

In general, you're responsible for yourself. Nobody is stopping you from reading whatever text.

Publishers are when their restrictions are not advisory but amount to restricted sale.

Anyway, my point was that after receiving the lung for the 17 tantras, since their information content covers the entirety of the highest man ngag sde teachings, and since this means they could stand in for a lung for Buddhahood in this Life and Tshig don mdzod, they could potentially stand in for a lung for any later man ngag sde text since no new ground is covered. And as i stated, the idea would be to get the lung for the text in question as soon as an opportunity presented itself anyway. (And, of course, one would have to have received Dzogchen transmission and some teachings already.)

As Malcolm has already responded, you must decide for yourself.

I understand your point. I personally think you should get transmission or permission first, but that's just me.

[Archie2009]

If you have received Dzogchen transmission and some teachings already, then I think it is ok. If you have not, then maybe it is better to find a teacher first.

Let's say you have received Dzogchen transmission and some teachings and perhaps some more. In the information session you mentioned that everything in the Tshig don mdzod, but also basically everything in Lonchenpa's writings is based on the man ngag sde 17 tantras. Wouldn't that then basically also hold for every Heart Essence Dzogchen text composed after him? So you could read almost anything with the intention of getting the lung afterwards as soon as the opportunity presents itself? Let's say Wonderous Dance of Illusion on which the publisher of the English translation has tagged a restriction for possession of the lung. I think this particular restriction came at the request of Chatral Rinpoche, but I personally think it is silly since there is (probably) no such restriction attached to the Tibetan original.

That's something you must decide for yourself. And yes, you can download that autobio from BDRC with no problem. Other texts of his are restricted, meaning you cannot download them.

I didn't realize that.

Anyway, my point was that after receiving the lung for the 17 tantras, since their information content covers the entirety of the highest man ngag sde teachings, and since this means they could stand in for a lung for Buddhahood in this Life and Tshig don mdzod, they could potentially stand in for a lung for any later man ngag sde text since no new ground is covered. And as i stated, the idea would be to get the lung for the text in question as soon as an opportunity presented itself anyway. (And, of course, one would have to have received Dzogchen transmission and some teachings already.)

Doesn’t work like that. Basically it’s dealer’s choice. The lama who holds the transmission decides who can receive it and under what conditions. The fact that you’ve received something similar from someone else doesn’t obviate that requirement. Sure, no terma contains much beyond the content of the 17 tantras. But that doesn’t mean you can pick up and read any text from any terma.

Another in my opinion silly restriction is on the Shambhala published translation of Nang jang. It also has restrictions put on it by Chatral Rinpoche (completing a Ngondro), while practically the entire contents of that book (text + Sera Khandro commentary) can be bought in the Wallace translation published by Wisdom from any book store. In fact, at the Vajrayana Foundation's recent teaching on Nagjang participants were encouraged to buy the Wallace translation, even though completing a Ngondro beforehand (Chatral Rinpoche's restriction) was not a requirement for receiving lung, wang and tri at that online event. So now the Shambhala translation would still be off limits to certain participants? A schizophrenic situation. And frustrating, since the restricted sales means there are only two legitimate sellers worldwide selling the book online.

Anyway, I'll take your point on transmission holders for termas. Though Chatral Rinpoche being a transmisison holder for Sera Khandro would have resulted in one translation being sold at only 2 stores worldwide, while the Wallace translation can be ordered at your local department store.

[Malcolm]

Though Chatral Rinpoche being a transmisison holder for Sera Khandro would have resulted in one translation being sold at only 2 stores worldwide, while the Wallace translation can be ordered at your local department store.

Another rather absurd situation, like the one you describe, is Mipham's short commentary on Guhyagarbha. The LOB translation is restricted, the Dharmacakra translation is not.

[Natan]

Let's say you have received Dzogchen transmission and some teachings and perhaps some more. In the information session you mentioned that everything in the Tshig don mdzod, but also basically everything in Lonchenpa's writings is based on the man ngag sde 17 tantras. Wouldn't that then basically also hold for every Heart Essence Dzogchen text composed after him? So you could read almost anything with the intention of getting the lung afterwards as soon as the opportunity presents itself? Let's say Wonderous Dance of Illusion on which the publisher of the English translation has tagged a restriction for possession of the lung. I think this particular restriction came at the request of Chatral Rinpoche, but I personally think it is silly since there is (probably) no such restriction attached to the Tibetan original.

That's something you must decide for yourself. And yes, you can download that autobio from BDRC with no problem. Other texts of his are restricted, meaning you cannot download them.

I didn't realize that.

Anyway, my point was that after receiving the lung for the 17 tantras, since their information content covers the entirety of the highest man ngag sde teachings, and since this means they could stand in for a lung for Buddhahood in this Life and Tshig don mdzod, they could potentially stand in for a lung for any later man ngag sde text since no new ground is covered. And as i stated, the idea would be to get the lung for the text in question as soon as an opportunity presented itself anyway. (And, of course, one would have to have received Dzogchen transmission and some teachings already.)

Doesn’t work like that. Basically it’s dealer’s choice. The lama who holds the transmission decides who can receive it and under what conditions. The fact that you’ve received something similar from someone else doesn’t obviate that requirement. Sure, no terma contains much beyond the content of the 17 tantras. But that doesn’t mean you can pick up and read any text from any terma.

Another in my opinion silly restriction is on the Shambhala published translation of Nang jang. It also has restrictions put on it by Chatral Rinpoche (completing a Ngondro), while practically the entire contents of that book (text + Sera Khandro commentary) can be bought in the Wallace translation published by Wisdom from any book store. In fact, at the Vajrayana Foundation's recent teaching on Nagjang participants were encouraged to buy the Wallace translation, even though completing a Ngondro beforehand (Chatral Rinpoche's restriction) was not a requirement for receiving lung, wang and tri at that online event. So now the Shambhala translation would still be off limits to certain participants? A schizophrenic situation. And frustrating, since the restricted sales means there are only two legitimate sellers worldwide selling the book online.

Anyway, I'll take your point on transmission holders for termas. Though Chatral Rinpoche being a transmisison holder for Sera Khandro would have resulted in one translation being sold at only 2 stores worldwide, while the Wallace translation can be ordered at your local department store.

What's a "department store"?

[Sādhaka]

As always there’s a fine line and/or slippery slopes.

If you’ve received a RPTW, then you should be able to read just about anything.

However if you’re in a lineage where your lineage-masters specifically want you to get the rLung, then you should try to respect that.

Captain Obvious here I guess….

[Malcolm]

What's a "department store"?

Woolworth’s, etc.

[the.eleven]

The translation of Sera Khandro's nang jang commentary was a rather special project from what I have heard from those involved, and I for one would respect the publisher's and Chatral Rinpoche's request on that one.

There are plenty of other books to read.