Converting to dzogchen?…

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Kurp
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Converting to dzogchen?…

Post by Kurp »

I was thinking of this earlier and thought I’d ask here what it means, since I am unable to ask the original source.

I once read an email where a dzogchen practitioner said, “I’ve converted another one.”

What does that even mean? I’m assuming she was referring to dzogchen, and was implying that she converted a person to… dzogchen?? If that is what she meant, then how does one “convert” someone to dzogchen?

Thanks.


Edit: spelling hard
dharmafootsteps
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Re: Converting to dzogchen?…

Post by dharmafootsteps »

I would guess it means they conditioned someone into taking an interest in Dzogchen.
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Re: Converting to dzogchen?…

Post by Aryjna »

Kurp wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:58 pm I was thinking of this earlier and thought I’d ask here what it means, since I am unable to ask the original source.

I once read an email where a dzogchen practitioner said, “I’ve converted another one.”

What does that even mean? I’m assuming she was referring to dzogchen, and was implying that she converted a person to… dzogchen?? If that is what she meant, then how does one “convert” someone to dzogchen?

Thanks.


Edit: spelling hard
How could anyone here know what some nameless person meant in an email?
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Re: Converting to dzogchen?…

Post by Malcolm »

Kurp wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:58 pm I was thinking of this earlier and thought I’d ask here what it means, since I am unable to ask the original source.

I once read an email where a dzogchen practitioner said, “I’ve converted another one.”

What does that even mean? I’m assuming she was referring to dzogchen, and was implying that she converted a person to… dzogchen?? If that is what she meant, then how does one “convert” someone to dzogchen?
You can't convert anyone to anything. Either people have the good fortune to meet Dzogchen teachings or they don't. It's a karmic thing.
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Re: Converting to dzogchen?…

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Kurp wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:58 pm I was thinking of this earlier and thought I’d ask here what it means, since I am unable to ask the original source.

I once read an email where a dzogchen practitioner said, “I’ve converted another one.”

What does that even mean? I’m assuming she was referring to dzogchen, and was implying that she converted a person to… dzogchen?? If that is what she meant, then how does one “convert” someone to dzogchen?

Thanks.


Edit: spelling hard
That’s silly, in a few different ways. People have the Karma for it or they don’t, convincing people to be interested in it is just showy and likely achieves nothing.

I would take statements like that with heaping helping of salt and not take that person as an authority, providing they were even serious.
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Re: Converting to dzogchen?…

Post by Kurp »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:22 pm
I would … not take that person as an authority, providing they were even serious.
They were quite serious by the context of the email. As a matter of fact, she bragged how she was able to convert more than one person. :shrug: She almost made it sound like a competition; as if she was doing well and the other person receiving the email was far behind in their efforts to convert more, too.
Last edited by Kurp on Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Converting to dzogchen?…

Post by Malcolm »

Kurp wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:33 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:22 pm
I would … not take that person as an authority, providing they were even serious.
They were quite serious by the context of the email. As a matter of fact, she bragged how she was able to convert more than one person. :shrug: She almost made it sound like a competition; as if she was doing well and the other person receiving the email was far behind in their efforts to convert more, too.
Whoever she was, she is an egotistical idiot.
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Re: Converting to dzogchen?…

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Kurp wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:33 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:22 pm
I would … not take that person as an authority, providing they were even serious.
They were quite serious by the context of the email. As a matter of fact, she bragged how she was able to convert more than one person. :shrug: She almost made it sound like a competition; as if she was doing well and the other person receiving the email was far behind in their efforts to convert more, too.
Sounds like a great person to not listen to.
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Re: Converting to dzogchen?…

Post by Kurp »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:38 pm
Kurp wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:33 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:22 pm
I would … not take that person as an authority, providing they were even serious.
They were quite serious by the context of the email. As a matter of fact, she bragged how she was able to convert more than one person. :shrug: She almost made it sound like a competition; as if she was doing well and the other person receiving the email was far behind in their efforts to convert more, too.
Whoever she was, she is an egotistical idiot.
Agreed.
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Re: Converting to dzogchen?…

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Since (most) Buddhists do not try to convert people, it very likely could have been a tongue-in-cheek comment, not to be taken literally. Like she introduced someone to her teacher, and that person then became a student of that teacher. Or even to the Dharma.
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Re: Converting to dzogchen?…

Post by climb-up »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:43 pm Since (most) Buddhists do not try to convert people, it very likely could have been a tongue-in-cheek comment, not to be taken literally. Like she introduced someone to her teacher, and that person then became a student of that teacher. Or even to the Dharma.
No need to speak badly of people.
That was precisely what I was going to suggest; that perhaps several people she had talked to had developed an interest in Dzogchen and she connected them with a teacher.
If it had spend a few times it could, potentially, be a running joke “oh! Converted another one! 😂

Of course it’s possible that that’s not the case, but if the email is vague enough to not be sure then that does seem like a nicer interpretation than some of the above suggestions and it might be a good idea to at least give the benefit of the doubt. 🤷🏻‍♂️
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Re: Converting to dzogchen?…

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

There are plenty of silly ideas out there, self-proclaimed Facebook Dzogchen masters and whatnot. There is also plenty of I’ll-informed New Age crossover in some circles.

So without further context, who even knows what the person was talking about.

It doesn’t matter though, people either meet the teaching, recognize what there is to recognize and practice to be in that state or they don’t. Actual proselytizing to gain ‘Dzogchen converts’ is a ridiculous and very egotistical idea.
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Re: Converting to dzogchen?…

Post by Kurp »

climb-up wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:06 pm That was precisely what I was going to suggest; that perhaps several people she had talked to had developed an interest in Dzogchen and she connected them with a teacher.
If it had spend a few times it could, potentially, be a running joke “oh! Converted another one! 😂
No, that wasn’t it.

I read the email. It was not meant as a joke. Her wording was not in a joking manner, nor was she being sarcastic either. The phrasing was definitely meant to imply she was successful in converting people. Why would I start a thread on this if there was any hint of it being humor?

But who knows? She also belonged to a coven, so maybe she just meant converting people to witchcraft?
Last edited by Kurp on Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Converting to dzogchen?…

Post by Tenma »

Perhaps that should answer the question!
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Re: Converting to dzogchen?…

Post by Kurp »

Tenma wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:38 pm Perhaps that should answer the question!
Oh wait, no. That wouldn’t make sense come to think of it. Because why would she be in competition with the receiver of the email? They weren’t in a coven.

Ah well. Anyway, question answered. You don’t convert people to dzogchen. Impossible.

Thanks for the replies. Mods may close thread.
Last edited by Kurp on Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Converting to dzogchen?…

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Kurp wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:23 pm
climb-up wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:06 pm That was precisely what I was going to suggest; that perhaps several people she had talked to had developed an interest in Dzogchen and she connected them with a teacher.
If it had spend a few times it could, potentially, be a running joke “oh! Converted another one! 😂
No, that wasn’t it.

I read the email. It was not meant as a joke. Her wording was not in a joking manner, nor was she being sarcastic either. The phrasing was definitely meant to imply she was successful in converting people. Why would I start a thread on this if there was any hint of it being humor?

But who knows? She also belonged to a coven, so maybe she just meant converting people to witchcraft?
Well, I think you already knew that it was a ridiculous thing to say, so the question is, what is the next step here?

Unless you plan on confronting this person or something there is not much else to go over, try not to get our hackles up over nonsense I suppose, because we can always find it if we look.
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Re: Converting to dzogchen?…

Post by Josef »

This qualifies as a "childish person" that Longchenpa advises us to not associate with.
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Re: Converting to dzogchen?…

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Josef wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:52 pm This qualifies as a "childish person" that Longchenpa advises us to not associate with.
You are referring to the person in the email talking about converting people, correct?
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Re: Converting to dzogchen?…

Post by Josef »

Hazel wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:06 pm
Josef wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:52 pm This qualifies as a "childish person" that Longchenpa advises us to not associate with.
You are referring to the person in the email talking about converting people, correct?
Yes.
"All phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence of mind is purified, samsara is purified. Since the phenomena of nirvana depend on the pristine consciousness of vidyā, because one remains in the immediacy of vidyā, buddhahood arises on its own. All critical points are summarized with those two." - Longchenpa
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Re: Converting to dzogchen?…

Post by climb-up »

Kurp wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:23 pm. Why would I start a thread on this if there was any hint of it being humor?
I have no idea if there was any hint of humor, if you noticed it or if you would have noticed it because I don’t know you personally and all I have seen from the email itself is one out context sentence.

I mean, if you remember clearly that there was no hint of humor, fine, but there is not particularly reason to assume that everyone reading the out of context sentence knows what you have or haven’t considered and what the context was or wasn’t.

There is no conversion in Dzogchen, but wether there was or wasn’t any humor meant there is also no way of know precisely how that word was meant by its author without context. People can assume that she is awful, or arrogant or stupid, and maybe she is, but those are all assumptions.
But who knows? She also belonged to a coven, so maybe she just meant converting people to witchcraft?
So you do know who this person is?
Why is it that you can’t ask them directly?
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