treehuggingoctopus wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:44 am
Aloke wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:17 am
But what I've read, and heard many times was that Rinpoche has appointed only his son and daughter as his lineage holders specially for the Longsal Cycle. We all know that Yeshi in the past gave teachings and transmissions and had some actuation in the Dzogchen Community. Then after, in 2014, he made a decision of not being involved with the Community anymore.
We can't simply say that he has a "conflict" with the Community, and not pay attention or disregard what he does, or in this case what he doesn't do or don't want to do. I mean we cannot simply ignore his actions, thinking that is just a "conflict" because he opted to live a different way of life than what he was expected or supposed to live, or he has changed his mind about the Dzogchen Community and then he has no "authority" or relevance anymore. We cannot just simply think like this, nor ignore the reasons behind the conflict, whichever they are.
If we admit that it was Rinpoche's wish to appoint Yeshi and his daughter (I'm not sure about his daughter but about Yeshi I certainly heard and read many times) as his lineage holders, we must also admit that Rinpoche knew very well what he was doing, and I'm sure he also knew his own son and daughter very well, and choosed to do so. Otherwise, we would be disrespecting Rinpoche's wish as a terton, (and also the legit lineage holders appointed by him, regardless if they want or not to have this position) or maybe saying that Rinpoche was wrong when appointing his son and daughter as his lineage holder, or even that Rinpoche doesn't know his own children very well. What would be absurd.
By Yeshi's own admission, neither he nor Yuchen were ever appointed as Longsal lineage holders. No one was. Rinpoche's document states that they can teach the practices they received from the father -- which Yeshi understands as meaning that they can instruct on them. Yeshi will not do that, however, because he wants to have nothing to do with the DC.
Pardon me, but in the context I have no interest in what Yeshi says or does, or fails to say or do. Nor do I see a reason why anyone in the DC should or would. As far as he is concerned, we are not family, something which he has taken truly painstaking care to make us all aware of.
Aloke wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:11 am
Malcolm wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:12 pm
There is no official lineage holder. This does not mean that there are no people who are qualified to give the transmissions they have received.
This doesn't seem to be the official position of the Dzogchen Community. But something that you are repeating, maybe to reinforce your self proclamation as one of the lineage holders? As you already give teachings, lungs/empowerments. It is just a question ok?
As far as there being no official lineage holder goes, it is very much the official position of the DC, and it is precisely what Yeshi insisted on. Did you attend the meeting during which the IDG answered people's questions?
Also, Malcolm has never proclaimed himself to be a Longsal/ChNN lineage holder. And he has never taught Longsal.
First of all I want to thank you for your openness and patience to talk about this subject!
I have heard and have read this kind of thing many times from Dzogchen Community people, and as I said, correct me if something doesn't actually correspond to the truth.
About Yeshe you said that "he wants to have nothing to do with the DC", and you asked me if I have attended the meeting during which the IDG answered people's questions. I have not attended the meeting, I thought it would be a waste of time, but of course, I read the documents they provided, and one of the answers to one of the questions about Transmissions / Lungs, more specifically: "Will Yeshi give direct transmission?" Was: "Yeshi announced that he would give direct transmission in Merigar West for people seriously interested in the teaching of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu in Easter 2020. Then the event was canceled due to the Covid pandemic. Yeshi said in the two meetings in August that he intends to make it possible to access the texts and teaching of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, by meeting people seriously interested in the Teaching of the Master, when circumstances make it possible."
I am still trying to find the coherence between saying that Yeshe don't want to have nothing to do with the Dzogchen Community, and the Dzogchen Community people keep saying things like this not only in informal conversations, but in their Annual General Meeting. Finally, about Yeshe's reasons behind his conflict with the Dzogchen Community I do think that we should not ignore it. It would be foolish, as sooner or later some stuff will show up.
I didn't affirm that Malcolm has proclaimed something, or that he has or not taught Longsal. I was just making a question. I know that Malcolm says that his "job is the 17 tantras." But he has also said things like:
"ChNN was one of the most accessible teachers in modern memory. He answered every email, etc., as well as sitting for hours after almost every session to greet students personally until he became too ill. He also taught in a way that was so comprehensive as to anticipate nearly any question a student might have. He is the most important link to authentic Dzogchen teachings on this globe. I am proud to be his student, his lineage will continue as long as I am alive, and beyond, among my students, whether they are recognized by Dzogchen Community or not.Last edited by Malcolm on Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total."