Dzogchen in Germany

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lelopa
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Re: Dzogchen in Germany

Post by lelopa »

Great Perfection is ok but it is not Total Perfection which fits better imho.
Translating perfection in german as Vervollkommnung is BS
translating it as Große Vollkommenheit is not so good as Totale Vollkommenheit
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Ayu
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Re: Dzogchen in Germany

Post by Ayu »

lelopa wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:28 am Great Perfection is ok but it is not Total Perfection which fits better imho.
Translating perfection in german as Vervollkommnung is BS
translating it as Große Vollkommenheit is not so good as Totale Vollkommenheit
I believe, the English word 'great' has a different connotation than 'groß' in German:
https://www.dict.cc/?s=Great
https://www.dict.cc/?s=groß
Therfore this discussion is slightly useless, especially within this topic.
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lelopa
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Re: Dzogchen in Germany

Post by lelopa »

Ayu wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:43 am
lelopa wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:28 am Great Perfection is ok but it is not Total Perfection which fits better imho.
Translating perfection in german as Vervollkommnung is BS
translating it as Große Vollkommenheit is not so good as Totale Vollkommenheit
I believe, the English word 'great' has a different connotation than 'groß' in German:
https://www.dict.cc/?s=Great
https://www.dict.cc/?s=groß
Therfore this discussion is slightly useless, especially within this topic.
just slightly
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Malcolm
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Re: Dzogchen in Germany

Post by Malcolm »

Mahasandhi is definitely a spurious back translation. Taking a look at the man ngag lta ba phreng ba, Padmasambhava discusses creation stage (utpannakrama), completion stage(sampannakrama)and great completion stage, I.e mahasampannakrama.

However, in English, “Great Perfection” is just fine.


Tendzin Mingyur wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:23 pm
lelopa wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:35 am
Tendzin Mingyur wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:10 pm

Berzin translates it the same way https://studybuddhism.com/de/tibetische ... t-dzogchen

The point here is not the translation, but what teachings are given. At least in my humble opinion. Gangteng Tulku Rinpoche offers Dzogchen teachings coming from the Pema Lingpa lineage. He will teach students everything from Khorde Ruzhen, Thregchöd, Thögal and Bardo, after you finished a good amount of Ngöndro (min. 10%). And he will give these teachings on a regular basis in closed retreats. If you are interested in Maha- or Anuyoga practices like Tsalung, Thrulkhor, Tummo or other things these are also given. This year he gave teachings on what Padmakara translates as 'Finding Rest in Illusion', which is one famous text of Longchenpa (due to corona it was an online teaching). We also invited Khenchen Pema Sherab, who is the teacher of our resident lama in Europe to give lungs for the 17 Dzogchen tantras and other teachings. At the moment our European resident lama Khenpo Karma Wangyal is giving a teaching cycle via zoom on Jigme Lingpa's Yönten Dzö.

We don't do much advertisement, because our group is small and we all have jobs, but it exists for over 24 years now.
Berzin is not the number 1 lotsawa of my choice
Well Padmakara translation group uses Great Perfection in the translation of the Zintri of Kunzang Lamai Shelung, Lama Chönam and Sangye Khandro in the Ambrosia Ocean of Sublime Explanations as well as in the translation of the Tsig Dön Dzö, Eric Pema Kunzang uses the same in Blazing Splendor, it is also used this way in the translation of Dudjom Rinpoche's History and Fundamentals of the Nyingma School as Richard Barron does it in the translation of Dudjom Lingpa's Nang Jang. Bob Thurman translated Mahasandhi as Great Connection in his recent teachings with Dr. Nida, reffering to Sandhi as connection, but translates the tibetan term Dzogchen as Great Perfection. Even Keith Dowman, known to invent his own translation like Pixels, Matrix and stuff, uses it in his translation of Longchenpas Chöying Dzö. Maybe it is just me, but I feel that this is quite a well established term for the translation of Dzogchen/Mahasandhi.

Sorry for the off topic discussion. :focus:
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yagmort
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Re: Dzogchen in Germany

Post by yagmort »

what lotsawas here think of Duff's translation of mahasandhi as "great junction"?
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Malcolm
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Re: Dzogchen in Germany

Post by Malcolm »

yagmort wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:17 pm what lotsawas here think of Duff's translation of mahasandhi as "great junction"?
Since it is based on spurious back translation, not much.
Archie2009
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Re: Dzogchen in Germany

Post by Archie2009 »

Tony Duff's strong insistence that Mipham and even Longchenpa were zhentongpas is really off-putting. I had to return a book of his I recently bought out of curiosity, The Other Emptiness: Entering the Wisdom Beyond Emptiness of Self, when discovering this in the introduction.

(Sorry for the turn off topic.)
Malcolm
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Re: Dzogchen in Germany

Post by Malcolm »

Archie2009 wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:20 pm Tony Duff's strong insistence that Mipham and even Longchenpa were zhentongpas is really off-putting.
In both cases this is completely false, and he should know better, since in Longchenpa's last major writing, the commentary on the treasury of the dharmadhātu, he clear states that the view of Dzogchen is philosophically the same as Prasanga, aka Candrakīrti's presentation of Madhyamaka.
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Xango
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Re: Dzogchen in Germany

Post by Xango »

Malcolm wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:45 pm Mahasandhi is definitely a spurious back translation.
What about Santi Maha Sangha?
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lelopa
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Re: Dzogchen in Germany

Post by lelopa »

Xango wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:35 am
Malcolm wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:45 pm Mahasandhi is definitely a spurious back translation.
What about Santi Maha Sangha?
Thus have I heard:
Mahasandhi is sanskrit,
Santi Maha is Oddiyana language.
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