Dzogchen Path

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Dvs
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Dzogchen Path

Post by Dvs »

What is the Dzogchen path from start to finish. I would like to understand the complete path from point A to Z and everything in between?

Is it different in each Nyingma school? Is there a completely linear path?

Sorry if this is somewhat confusing.
Malcolm
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Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Dzogchen Path

Post by Malcolm »

Dvs wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:49 pm What is the Dzogchen path from start to finish. I would like to understand the complete path from point A to Z and everything in between?

Is it different in each Nyingma school? Is there a completely linear path?

Sorry if this is somewhat confusing.
Do you mean is there a graded path of Dzogchen?

Yes and no.

Like all other Vajrayāna paths, one begins with receiving an empowerment or a so-called direct introduction. Then, depending on master and tradition, one either engages in common Vajrayāna preliminaries, or one moves directly to the uncommon Dzogchen preliminaries. One may or may not spend time practicing deity yoga.

The essential practice of Dzogchen teachings is guruyoga.
"Nonduality is merely a name;
that name does not exist."
—Kotalipa
Dvs
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Re: Dzogchen Path

Post by Dvs »

Malcolm wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:17 pm
Do you mean is there a graded path of Dzogchen?

Yes and no.
Yes that's I meant. What are the uncommon Dzogchen preliminaries?

Thanks for the reply!🙏
Malcolm
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Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Dzogchen Path

Post by Malcolm »

Dvs wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:21 pm
Malcolm wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:17 pm
Do you mean is there a graded path of Dzogchen?

Yes and no.
Yes that's I meant. What are the uncommon Dzogchen preliminaries?

Thanks for the reply!🙏
They are called "separating samsara from nirvana."
"Nonduality is merely a name;
that name does not exist."
—Kotalipa
yagmort
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Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:18 pm

Re: Dzogchen Path

Post by yagmort »

Malcolm wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:17 pm The essential practice of Dzogchen teachings is guruyoga.
Malcolm, could you please clarify this seeming contradiction ?
Malcolm wrote:
heart wrote: Now you got me confused, isn't Guru Yoga a main Dzogchen practice?
Of course not. The main Dzogchen practice is the direct perception of your own state. Even guru yoga is a practice that works with mind, rather than pristine consciousness -- even Ati guru yoga. Thus, guru yoga is a method related to the second phrase of Garab Dorje, "decide one thing/remain without doubt." One uses guru yoga, or rushan, etc., to introduce oneself to the mind essence over and over as many times as one needs until one has attained some stability in recognizing it and sustaining that recognition.

Once you have "decided on one thing/no longer remain in doubt", then you do not remain passive, you shift your focus to "continue in the confidence of liberation/continue in that state," relying principally on the primary methods of the Great Perfection found in so called "man ngag lde," trekchö and thögal.
this is from the thread "highest practices" and anti-intellectualism
Malcolm
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Re: Dzogchen Path

Post by Malcolm »

yagmort wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:18 am
Malcolm wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:17 pm The essential practice of Dzogchen teachings is guruyoga.
Malcolm, could you please clarify this seeming contradiction ?
Malcolm wrote:
heart wrote: Now you got me confused, isn't Guru Yoga a main Dzogchen practice?
Of course not. The main Dzogchen practice is the direct perception of your own state. Even guru yoga is a practice that works with mind, rather than pristine consciousness -- even Ati guru yoga. Thus, guru yoga is a method related to the second phrase of Garab Dorje, "decide one thing/remain without doubt." One uses guru yoga, or rushan, etc., to introduce oneself to the mind essence over and over as many times as one needs until one has attained some stability in recognizing it and sustaining that recognition.

Once you have "decided on one thing/no longer remain in doubt", then you do not remain passive, you shift your focus to "continue in the confidence of liberation/continue in that state," relying principally on the primary methods of the Great Perfection found in so called "man ngag lde," trekchö and thögal.
this is from the thread "highest practices" and anti-intellectualism
There is no conflict. Guru yoga is how we discover our own state.
"Nonduality is merely a name;
that name does not exist."
—Kotalipa
Danny
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Re: Dzogchen Path

Post by Danny »

Malcolm wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:01 am

There is no conflict. Guru yoga is how we discover our own state.
Yep.
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Lingpupa
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Re: Dzogchen Path

Post by Lingpupa »

heart wrote:
Now you got me confused, isn't Guru Yoga a main Dzogchen practice?
To which Malcolm replied:
Of course not
But later said:
The essential practice of Dzogchen teachings is guruyoga.
then adding, with reference to both statements:
There is no conflict.
Now it's me that's confused.
All the best
Alex Wilding
Stupa in the Snow blog at http://chagchen.org/
Danny
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Re: Dzogchen Path

Post by Danny »

Lingpupa wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:11 am heart wrote:
Now you got me confused, isn't Guru Yoga a main Dzogchen practice?
To which Malcolm replied:
Of course not
But later said:
The essential practice of Dzogchen teachings is guruyoga.
then adding, with reference to both statements:
There is no conflict.
Now it's me that's confused.
Main and essential are not contradictory. Malcom
Says the main practice would be the separation practices etc, but the essential is guru yoga.
One is secondary, the other primary.
Ya know, love and marriage etc....
Dvs
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Re: Dzogchen Path

Post by Dvs »

Malcolm wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:22 pm
Dvs wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:21 pm
Malcolm wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:17 pm
Do you mean is there a graded path of Dzogchen?

Yes and no.
Yes that's I meant. What are the uncommon Dzogchen preliminaries?

Thanks for the reply!🙏
They are called "separating samsara from nirvana."
Malcolm, Thanks for the information!
Yeti
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Re: Dzogchen Path

Post by Yeti »

IMHO The Great Secret of Mind is one of the best coverages of Dzogchen

http://keithdowman.net/books/great-secret-of-mind.html
"People are fond of saying all sorts of things about others behind their backs, mentioning their names again and again. Instead of slandering others in this way, “slander” the yidam: utter his name repeatedly by reciting his mantra all the time." - Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche - Zurchungpa’s Testament - Shambhala Publications
Crazywisdom
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Re: Dzogchen Path

Post by Crazywisdom »

DzogChen is not a path. It is reality. It is like if all you ever saw was a puppet show amd you thought that was life, and one day someone showed you real life. You will never again think the puppet show was real life.
Crazywisdom
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Re: Dzogchen Path

Post by Crazywisdom »

There are paths to learn and finally wake up to reality. That is called Vajrayana. The so called path of Dzogchen is some Vajrayana path. Guru yoga and visualization is Vajrayana. If you know reality what is there to practice? I do not have to practice eyesight. I just see. You have to practice sight only if your eyes were covered for a long time..
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