Page 2 of 2

Re: Lama Lena Testimonies/Credentials

Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:18 pm
by Malcolm
Pero wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:28 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:34 pm
Pero wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:41 pm If you received teachings from her she is already your guru.
Not necessarily.
How so?
For someone to be your guru, you must understand something from them in a concrete way. Just going and listening to some teachings really does not mean anything.

Re: Lama Lena Testimonies/Credentials

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:51 pm
by Pero
Malcolm wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:18 pm
Pero wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:28 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:34 pm

Not necessarily.
How so?
For someone to be your guru, you must understand something from them in a concrete way. Just going and listening to some teachings really does not mean anything.
I don't know if that makes sense. Then even if you go to a regular empowerment, if you listen, do all you're told but don't really understand it, the person giving the empowerment is not your teacher? I mean, it seems to me that if this were true many wouldn't actually have "teachers"...

Re: Lama Lena Testimonies/Credentials

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:52 pm
by Malcolm
Pero wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:51 pm I mean, it seems to me that if this were true many wouldn't actually have "teachers"...
Correct. They have teachers in name only.

Re: Lama Lena Testimonies/Credentials

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:18 pm
by Pero
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:52 pm
Pero wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:51 pm I mean, it seems to me that if this were true many wouldn't actually have "teachers"...
Correct. They have teachers in name only.
:thinking:

Re: Lama Lena Testimonies/Credentials

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:44 pm
by Matt J
Can we refer to them as TINOs? :rolling:

But seriously to Pero, how would one have a teacher if one wasn't actually taught anything?
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:52 pm
Pero wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:51 pm I mean, it seems to me that if this were true many wouldn't actually have "teachers"...
Correct. They have teachers in name only.

Re: Lama Lena Testimonies/Credentials

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:01 pm
by Malcolm
Pero wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:18 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:52 pm
Pero wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:51 pm I mean, it seems to me that if this were true many wouldn't actually have "teachers"...
Correct. They have teachers in name only.
:thinking:
Just think of all the people who waltz into an online empowerment, or tune into a Lama Lena Facebook teaching which is literally open to a billion people, check it out for a while, and then move onto say, Jax. So really, Lena is their guru? Their teacher? Or lets say someone checks out Buddhism for while, does Ngondro, and then, for whatever reason, they decide to become Christians, and hang up their mala for good. Did they ever have a guru in a real sense?

This idea that participating in a ritual or a teaching makes someone your guru is a somewhat strange idea if you have no idea of the meaning of the teachings and so, on, and no faith in the teachings, and no interest in following them as your path.

Of course, this idea is a traditional idea, one which functions well in homogenous Buddhist society where everyone is more or less on the same page. But in our culture it really does not apply, in my opinion.

Re: Lama Lena Testimonies/Credentials

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:38 pm
by Pero
Matt J wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:44 pm Can we refer to them as TINOs? :rolling:

But seriously to Pero, how would one have a teacher if one wasn't actually taught anything?
What does TINO stand for?

Well, one could have a very shitty teacher or be a shitty student. :lol:

Re: Lama Lena Testimonies/Credentials

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:00 pm
by Pero
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:01 pm Just think of all the people who waltz into an online empowerment, or tune into a Lama Lena Facebook teaching which is literally open to a billion people, check it out for a while, and then move onto say, Jax. So really, Lena is their guru? Their teacher? Or lets say someone checks out Buddhism for while, does Ngondro, and then, for whatever reason, they decide to become Christians, and hang up their mala for good. Did they ever have a guru in a real sense?

This idea that participating in a ritual or a teaching makes someone your guru is a somewhat strange idea if you have no idea of the meaning of the teachings and so, on, and no faith in the teachings, and no interest in following them as your path.

Of course, this idea is a traditional idea, one which functions well in homogenous Buddhist society where everyone is more or less on the same page. But in our culture it really does not apply, in my opinion.
I see your point now but am not sure about it. I partly agree but in school for example, I had many teachers who taught me many things which I never used and have forgotten (and some I never learnt lol). This does not make them not my teachers at some point. Also by what you're saying, if someone actually learns something from one teacher and then learns the same or similar thing from another, but would not be able to understand this if he had learned from the 2nd first, wouldn't the the 2nd teacher still automatically become his teacher simply due to prior knowledge possesed by the student? And so on for the 3rd and 4th etc.

Re: Lama Lena Testimonies/Credentials

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:07 pm
by Malcolm
Pero wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:00 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:01 pm Just think of all the people who waltz into an online empowerment, or tune into a Lama Lena Facebook teaching which is literally open to a billion people, check it out for a while, and then move onto say, Jax. So really, Lena is their guru? Their teacher? Or lets say someone checks out Buddhism for while, does Ngondro, and then, for whatever reason, they decide to become Christians, and hang up their mala for good. Did they ever have a guru in a real sense?

This idea that participating in a ritual or a teaching makes someone your guru is a somewhat strange idea if you have no idea of the meaning of the teachings and so, on, and no faith in the teachings, and no interest in following them as your path.

Of course, this idea is a traditional idea, one which functions well in homogenous Buddhist society where everyone is more or less on the same page. But in our culture it really does not apply, in my opinion.
I see your point now but am not sure about it. I partly agree but in school for example, I had many teachers who taught me many things which I never used and have forgotten (and some I never learnt lol). This does not make them not my teachers at some point. Also by what you're saying, if someone actually learns something from one teacher and then learns the same or similar thing from another, but would not be able to understand this if he had learned from the 2nd first, wouldn't the the 2nd teacher still automatically become his teacher simply due to prior knowledge possesed by the student? And so on for the 3rd and 4th etc.
People really like to make shit complicated.

It's simple. For example, you listened to webcast. You received direct introduction. You did not understand, you do not experience anything. You never did any practice to discover your own state. In this case, Chogyal Namkhai Norbu is not your guru, not even your teacher. He is just some Tibetan dude you expressed some curiosity in. At best, you received a positive trace for meeting the teachings in a future life.

You met fifteen Dzogchen teachers. You really were devoted to them all. You didn't understand shit until you met ChNN for a conversation in a bar. But his few words opened up the meaning of Dzogchen for you. In this case, ChNN is your root guru. The others, gurus of empowerment and lineage only.

Re: Lama Lena Testimonies/Credentials

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:14 pm
by Pero
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:07 pm
Pero wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:00 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:01 pm Just think of all the people who waltz into an online empowerment, or tune into a Lama Lena Facebook teaching which is literally open to a billion people, check it out for a while, and then move onto say, Jax. So really, Lena is their guru? Their teacher? Or lets say someone checks out Buddhism for while, does Ngondro, and then, for whatever reason, they decide to become Christians, and hang up their mala for good. Did they ever have a guru in a real sense?

This idea that participating in a ritual or a teaching makes someone your guru is a somewhat strange idea if you have no idea of the meaning of the teachings and so, on, and no faith in the teachings, and no interest in following them as your path.

Of course, this idea is a traditional idea, one which functions well in homogenous Buddhist society where everyone is more or less on the same page. But in our culture it really does not apply, in my opinion.
I see your point now but am not sure about it. I partly agree but in school for example, I had many teachers who taught me many things which I never used and have forgotten (and some I never learnt lol). This does not make them not my teachers at some point. Also by what you're saying, if someone actually learns something from one teacher and then learns the same or similar thing from another, but would not be able to understand this if he had learned from the 2nd first, wouldn't the the 2nd teacher still automatically become his teacher simply due to prior knowledge possesed by the student? And so on for the 3rd and 4th etc.
People really like to make shit complicated.
:D
It's simple. For example, you listened to webcast. You received direct introduction. You did not understand, you do not experience anything. You never did any practice to discover your own state. In this case, Chogyal Namkhai Norbu is not your guru, not even your teacher. He is just some Tibetan dude you expressed some curiosity in. At best, you received a positive trace for meeting the teachings in a future life.

You met fifteen Dzogchen teachers. You really were devoted to them all. You didn't understand shit until you met ChNN for a conversation in a bar. But his few words opened up the meaning of Dzogchen for you. In this case, ChNN is your root guru. The others, gurus of empowerment and lineage only.
Now that I get, thanks.

Re: Lama Lena Testimonies/Credentials

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:55 am
by tobes
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:07 pm
Pero wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:00 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:01 pm Just think of all the people who waltz into an online empowerment, or tune into a Lama Lena Facebook teaching which is literally open to a billion people, check it out for a while, and then move onto say, Jax. So really, Lena is their guru? Their teacher? Or lets say someone checks out Buddhism for while, does Ngondro, and then, for whatever reason, they decide to become Christians, and hang up their mala for good. Did they ever have a guru in a real sense?

This idea that participating in a ritual or a teaching makes someone your guru is a somewhat strange idea if you have no idea of the meaning of the teachings and so, on, and no faith in the teachings, and no interest in following them as your path.

Of course, this idea is a traditional idea, one which functions well in homogenous Buddhist society where everyone is more or less on the same page. But in our culture it really does not apply, in my opinion.
I see your point now but am not sure about it. I partly agree but in school for example, I had many teachers who taught me many things which I never used and have forgotten (and some I never learnt lol). This does not make them not my teachers at some point. Also by what you're saying, if someone actually learns something from one teacher and then learns the same or similar thing from another, but would not be able to understand this if he had learned from the 2nd first, wouldn't the the 2nd teacher still automatically become his teacher simply due to prior knowledge possesed by the student? And so on for the 3rd and 4th etc.
At best, you received a positive trace for meeting the teachings in a future life.

I wouldn't underestimate this though. Dharma seeds can ripen in very unexpected ways, and they do not necessarily depend on the disciple being diligent, committed etc at the time of them being given/planted.

I owe a lot to this fact!

Re: Lama Lena Testimonies/Credentials

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:11 am
by Johnny Dangerous
I think I agree with what Malcolm is saying. In the way things are now, someone becomes your Guru based largely on your own receptivity and response to their teachings and introduction..not because you randomly tune into an empowerment. If you never really took it seriously in the first, the weight isn't there.

I don't doubt there's some blessing even in that circumstance, but it isn't the same as someone being your Guru.

Re: Lama Lena Testimonies/Credentials

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:14 am
by Malcolm
tobes wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:55 am
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:07 pm
Pero wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:00 pm

I see your point now but am not sure about it. I partly agree but in school for example, I had many teachers who taught me many things which I never used and have forgotten (and some I never learnt lol). This does not make them not my teachers at some point. Also by what you're saying, if someone actually learns something from one teacher and then learns the same or similar thing from another, but would not be able to understand this if he had learned from the 2nd first, wouldn't the the 2nd teacher still automatically become his teacher simply due to prior knowledge possesed by the student? And so on for the 3rd and 4th etc.
At best, you received a positive trace for meeting the teachings in a future life.

I wouldn't underestimate this though. Dharma seeds can ripen in very unexpected ways, and they do not necessarily depend on the disciple being diligent, committed etc at the time of them being given/planted.

I owe a lot to this fact!
We all do, nevertheless, we have no idea when such traces ripen, and in most case, probably not in this life.

Re: Lama Lena Testimonies/Credentials

Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:41 pm
by bluesimha


it might be worth watching her video on YouTube from her teachings in the Netherlands to get an idea if she's for you or not.
It goes through her personal views on the Buddhist abuse that had happened in the West.
Essential points are: cultural moral relativism, perception and the reality of it and her views on sleeping with Western and Eastern students.
She makes it clear that she isn't the whitest of white teacher and is very transparent so people can make their own mind up.
Good luck!

Re: Lama Lena Testimonies/Credentials

Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:55 am
by SilenceMonkey
She's powerful. I met her once in her cave in tso pema for a Q&A she often gives for people who come. I like her a lot and respect her rime spirit. A couple of Wangdor rinpoche's students say that they feel the presence of wangdor rinpoche when they're with her, it's almost like being with Wangdor Rinpoche himself. But that's coming from his own disciples, maybe there is more of a connection there than any old person.

She is in a yogi lineage where the lama sees the student where they're at an gives them a teaching they believe will suit the student's level. She was talking about ngondro not being necessary and many yogis in the lineage received dzogchen teachings without ngondro. For some reason, something in me didn't like this... just an attachment to the idea of ngondro, I suppose. So I didn't receive more teachings with her.

Re: Lama Lena Testimonies/Credentials

Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:49 pm
by bluesimha
I stopped listening to teachings too as I wasn't keen on her attitude to sexually relations between teachers and students that she spoke about in her video. She made it clear that she felt it was ok to sleep with her Eastern students as that is culturally ok. Kind of had enough of that stuff.

Re: Lama Lena Testimonies/Credentials

Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:28 pm
by Aryjna
bluesimha wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:49 pm I stopped listening to teachings too as I wasn't keen on her attitude to sexually relations between teachers and students that she spoke about in her video. She made it clear that she felt it was ok to sleep with her Eastern students as that is culturally ok. Kind of had enough of that stuff.
I watched half this video, and she has a point, about individual experience etc. However, more questions could have been asked by the people who started the discussion in the video.

For example, she is giving the example that in India, a girl may start playing a musical instrument at 3am, and she wouldn't even think about the neighbors, as if this makes it ok to do that in India. However, her neighbors would still be mad and tell her to stop, so the example is plainly wrong: It is not ok to make noise in the middle of the night in India, it is just that maybe more people do it without the thought that they are being annoying crossing their minds, which is a defect that should be corrected on their part. Her point would only be valid if people in India really didn't mind being woken up by loud noises in the middle of the night.

Also, regarding the differentiation between a teacher's personality and the possibility of gaining something from their teachings: These two are not really irrelevant to each other as she seems to be saying, because the teachers hold lineages based on samaya. Killing, raping, etc., is usually a breach of the samaya, thus rendering them incapable of transmitting anything useful.

Edit: As for the other thing, that saying no is pretty much equivalent to flirting in India. That is also wrong obviously. Just because people who've never bothered to think about anyone else other than themselves and spend their time watching crappy Indian series where women play coy by saying no, and then go out and harass everyone they meet, that does not make it culturally ok. There have been many protests etc. in India against this kind of moronic behavior. A qualified teacher should not expected to have the same understanding as a ricksaw driver that spends his time harassing his female passengers and watching stupid shit on tv.

Re: Lama Lena Testimonies/Credentials

Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 7:39 pm
by Cinnabar
I am not sure how I would have dealt with Lama Lena if I started with her. That isn’t a criticism. I think that about many great lamas that have a different personality than my own root teachers. But I encountered her in person, with quite a bit of exposure to Tibetan Buddhism and dzogchen. For me at that point in my practice she was a very useful teacher. She had a lot of experience in practice and owned the dharma she taught in her own voice, in her own style. That was useful. It was also useful having somebody who had a lot of experience in practice who spoke English. I had always asked questions of my teachers that I know never got through translation. Also nuance also seldom got through translation. So she was a good person to share experiences in meditation with. On top of that she was uncommonly supportive and encouraging. Actually seeing us as real yogis and yoginis.

Re: Lama Lena Testimonies/Credentials

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:27 pm
by Ignorant_Fool
Her latest videos on the Three Statements of Garab Dorje are amazing ...

Re: Lama Lena Testimonies/Credentials

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:09 pm
by Tata1
Ignorant_Fool wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:27 pm Her latest videos on the Three Statements of Garab Dorje are amazing ...
She is way better in person, specially in her cozzy cave :woohoo: