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Regret and Guru Yoga-Chatral R.

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:52 am
by passel
I visited Nepal and Tibet once. I wound up w 2 Aussies- lay-couple- and 1 Taiwanese- ordained-, Gelug-Nyingma, serious students w some Tibetan language (they called themselves “very boring ones”; it was funny), on a bus @ Pharping. We had a good day touring the temples and talking dharma. It was the first time I'd seen Inji doing full prostrations (I was semi-mortified); but I'd been reading the Digha-Nikaya, so I had plenty to share in retrospect. We talked about the "Weapon wheel" (common to Pali Buddhism and Lojong alike). We had a hired car I think on the way back to KTM and they knew where Chatrul Sangye Dorje's home was. We stopped, they knocked, eventually someone came to the door, called one of them in, they talked for a while, then we all got the boot: "He's in retreat". So I rejoice that my merit was sufficient to get me to the door, but I regret that I hadn't enough to meet the guy in this life. Even at my most cynical, I can't but think that he was a living saint. Lama Kyeno.

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PS. Levekunst said that after he died, they opened up his personal/family temple. In addition to what you'd expect, Rama and Sita were painted on one wall, and Krishna and Radha on the other. A Shiva linga with the three horizontal stripes was over the door. Yet he criticized lamas in his own tradition from a conventionally moral standpoint- called them alcoholics and samaya breakers even. Released fish and birds. If we want a model who was not crazy wisdom, but still inscrutable, deep, principled but without being rigidly sectarian, CSDR is hard to beat. I mean, who can but be humbled by a 100 year old Tibetan vegetarian. Thomas Merton would have come back from zen in Kyoto to study dzogchen w CSDR in Kalimpong if he'd had sufficient merit- see his Asian Journals- but he got electrocuted by a fan in Thailand before he could make it. No worries, I'm sure he got a crack at it early on in his subsequent life, and Is now practicing privately but to great effect somewhere on this planet we all share, karmically and literally.

PPS. I did get some QT w Anyen R.- fine Lama, do go see him, go out of your way. He has the goods and was born to teach. But anyway, he and Allison (his wife and translator) stayed w Chatral R. for a while. CSDR must have been in his late 80s by then, but he caught a snake with his hands, and he was so happy with himself that he just danced around for a bit, enjoying life with a snake in his 80 year old hands, life touching life to live, you know.

([just my commentary:] We could all get there in this life-it’s an open secret. Life is the empowerment and the samaya, just keep up a practice. Explicitness never hurts, but it’s not strictly required.)

PPPS. Just because it's a deep cut from a book that almost no one reads- Sangharakshita of FWBO/ bad Buddhists fame was student of Chatral R., also Dudjom, Dilgo, JKCL, at least in the sense of attending public teachings, tho if he even got DI, he didn't know it- definitely not a subitist that guy*- but anyway, he says in one of his autobiographies- prob the 2nd? he had like three 400 pagers- that he asked CSDR a question, probably some obscure, metaphysical bit of whatever, and CSDR- who would have been a young man then, we're talking about the early or at latest mid 60s- just held out a hand full of semi-precious kind of junk stones and offered it to the poor sad, smart, overwhelmed,closeted English deserter kid (Sangharakkhita/Sangharakshita), and he got a little relief, at least for a while.

Lama Kyeno!

PPPPS. At the end of the trip wound up at RY monastery; rest=history.

[sad violin music playing

#atleastwe'renotGurdjieff].

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*i do remember in one of his books he (Sangharakshita) talked about an empowerment he got from Dudjom- I don’t know what, and not even sure he said I in the book- he said that, mid-wang, he had the distinct subjective impression of a red laser from DR’s heart/mind to his. God bless a makyo, Namo all the Sacred Nyams, whatever gets you by. Bodhisattvas and allies persevere,

Re: Regret and Guru Yoga-Chatral R.

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:59 am
by passel
I guess Shrine Room would have been the place to post it, but whatever I’m leavin it.

Re: Regret and Guru Yoga-Chatral R.

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:52 pm
by Queequeg
passel wrote: Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:52 am Life is the empowerment and the samaya, just keep up a practice.
Source?

Re: Regret and Guru Yoga-Chatral R.

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:43 am
by passel
Queequeg wrote: Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:52 pm
passel wrote: Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:52 am Life is the empowerment and the samaya, just keep up a practice.
Source?
Jamgon Kongtrul’s Treasury, the volume I think just called Systems of Buddhist Tantra, in the Body chapter. It’s a free reading, not a quote.

Re: Regret and Guru Yoga-Chatral R.

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:15 am
by Queequeg
thank you.

Re: Regret and Guru Yoga-Chatral R.

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:02 am
by Queequeg
Just looked that work up on Amazon. Whoa. Its an encyclopedia.

Re: Regret and Guru Yoga-Chatral R.

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:11 am
by Lingpupa
Queequeg wrote: Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:02 am Just looked that work up on Amazon. Whoa. Its an encyclopedia.
Yep. You could do a lot worse in life than get hold of the full set and study them. :smile: :tongue: :twothumbsup:

Re: Regret and Guru Yoga-Chatral R.

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:07 pm
by Queequeg
Lingpupa wrote: Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:11 am
Queequeg wrote: Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:02 am Just looked that work up on Amazon. Whoa. Its an encyclopedia.
Yep. You could do a lot worse in life than get hold of the full set and study them. :smile: :tongue: :twothumbsup:
It would take a life and then some!

Is it a text that requires empowerment?

Re: Regret and Guru Yoga-Chatral R.

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:50 pm
by passel
Just a credit card

Re: Regret and Guru Yoga-Chatral R.

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:52 pm
by Queequeg
passel wrote: Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:50 pm Just a credit card
:rolling:

Re: Regret and Guru Yoga-Chatral R.

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:56 pm
by Norwegian
Queequeg wrote: Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:52 pm
passel wrote: Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:50 pm Just a credit card
:rolling:
Well, you should have received the corresponding empowerment, i.e., want to read about the inner workings of Highest Yoga Tantra / Inner Tantra? Then you should have received empowerment corresponding to that.

Re: Regret and Guru Yoga-Chatral R.

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:49 am
by TharpaChodron
passel wrote: Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:59 am I guess Shrine Room would have been the place to post it, but whatever I’m leavin it.
Probably one of the best, most sincere postings I've ever seen on DW. Cheers 🍻

Re: Regret and Guru Yoga-Chatral R.

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:13 am
by Sonam Wangchug
Not to be a stickler, but the Hindu deities were already in the building when he acquired it.

But yes, he did leave them up.

Re: Regret and Guru Yoga-Chatral R.

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:16 am
by passel
TharpaChodron wrote: Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:49 am
passel wrote: Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:59 am I guess Shrine Room would have been the place to post it, but whatever I’m leavin it.
Probably one of the best, most sincere postings I've ever seen on DW. Cheers 🍻
Nice of you to say:)

Re: Regret and Guru Yoga-Chatral R.

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:50 am
by oldbob
Wonderful picture and cascade of word images. :applause:

Many blessings and devotions. :thanks:

Showing up and practicing.

"red laser from the :heart: "

Re: Regret and Guru Yoga-Chatral R.

Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:04 am
by passel
oldbob wrote: Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:50 am Wonderful picture and cascade of word images. :applause:

Many blessings and devotions. :thanks:

Showing up and practicing.

"red laser from the :heart: "
thanks, bro

Re: Regret and Guru Yoga-Chatral R.

Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:06 am
by kirtu
Queequeg wrote: Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:07 pm
Lingpupa wrote: Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:11 am
Queequeg wrote: Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:02 am Just looked that work up on Amazon. Whoa. Its an encyclopedia.
Yep. You could do a lot worse in life than get hold of the full set and study them. :smile: :tongue: :twothumbsup:
It would take a life and then some!

Is it a text that requires empowerment?
No, except for the final two sections of book 8. The Treasury was intended for students to read as they prepared to go on retreat. Kongtrul does not talk about anything that needs prior empowerment in books 1-7, 9 and 10. Book 8 deals with tantric meditation and inner tantic practice. Kongtrul divided each of the books into 4 parts. The published volumes have book 7 and 8 part 1 & 2 together. Book 8 is titled The Training in Higher Meditative Absorption. Book 8 sections 1 & 2 deal with shamatha and vipashyana and not with tantra. However Book 8 section 3, Elements of Tantric Practice would be regarded as a text that does require empowerment prior to reading it. This is also probably true for book 8 section 4 published as Esoteric Instructions because of the topics involved.

Kirt

Re: Regret and Guru Yoga-Chatral R.

Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:06 am
by passel
Bump. Also, many of these comments simply enervate.

Re: Regret and Guru Yoga-Chatral R.

Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:11 am
by passel
Lingpupa wrote: Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:11 am
Queequeg wrote: Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:02 am Just looked that work up on Amazon. Whoa. Its an encyclopedia.
Yep. You could do a lot worse in life than get hold of the full set and study them. :smile: :tongue: :twothumbsup:
But couldn't you do better!

Re: Regret and Guru Yoga-Chatral R.

Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:12 am
by passel
kirtu wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:06 am
Queequeg wrote: Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:07 pm
Lingpupa wrote: Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:11 am

Yep. You could do a lot worse in life than get hold of the full set and study them. :smile: :tongue: :twothumbsup:
It would take a life and then some!

Is it a text that requires empowerment?
No, except for the final two sections of book 8. The Treasury was intended for students to read as they prepared to go on retreat. Kongtrul does not talk about anything that needs prior empowerment in books 1-7, 9 and 10. Book 8 deals with tantric meditation and inner tantic practice. Kongtrul divided each of the books into 4 parts. The published volumes have book 7 and 8 part 1 & 2 together. Book 8 is titled The Training in Higher Meditative Absorption. Book 8 sections 1 & 2 deal with shamatha and vipashyana and not with tantra. However Book 8 section 3, Elements of Tantric Practice would be regarded as a text that does require empowerment prior to reading it. This is also probably true for book 8 section 4 published as Esoteric Instructions because of the topics involved.

Kirt
TLDR