Liljenberg's Thesis "A critical study of the thirteen later translations of the Dzogchen mind series"

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dzogchungpa
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Liljenberg's Thesis "A critical study of the thirteen later translations of the Dzogchen mind series"

Post by dzogchungpa »

There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
Malcolm
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Re: Liljenberg's Thesis "A critical study of the thirteen later translations of the Dzogchen mind series"

Post by Malcolm »

dzogchungpa wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:39 pm It's available here: http://eprints.soas.ac.uk/15851/
It is interesting, but there are some funny mistakes like this footnote:


For example, see Norbu and Lipman 2001, p. 65, and p.121, lines 124-127. This passage quotes an unnamed teacher as stating that “pure symbolic consumption is also bodhicitta”: brda can yang dag len pa’ang byang chub yin zhes ston pas gsung. This probably denotes the ritual consumption of semen in the practice of sbyor ba. The same passage also refers to the Three Samādhi (ting ’dzin gsum po), and the Great Seal of the Dharma (chos kyi phyag rgya chen po).

In fact the line reads:

Furthermore, since the teacher has declared that awakening can be correctly grasped with a symbol,
in that case, this is the basis of the meditation that generates awakened mind.
After the three samadhis are stable and after binding the three symbolic mudras,
generate the mind as the great dharmamudra and meditate the recitation of the essence [mantra].


Mipham's comment, based on the commentary found in the Tengyur, states:

If it is asked, “What is the method for realizing the definitive meaning through the indirect method?,” since nonactivity is illustrated with the activity of fabricated efforts, like pointing at the moon with a finger, also awakened mind correctly grasped through a symbol will accomplish awakening because the Bhagavan Buddha, the teacher of devas and humans, has declared that it is “great awakening.” Any unfortunate one who conceptualizes entities should make efforts in the indirect method of realization.

In that case, this which is to be explained is the basis or cause of the meditation that generates ultimate awakened mind itself. If it is asked what that is, it is samadhi and mudra.

Now then, through the power of cultivating the three samadhis of suchness, universal illumination and the cause, [14/a] one will be stable, and not carried away by negative conditions. After the meditation of binding the three symbolic mudras of buddhahood— the body (mahāmudra), the mind (samaya mudra), and the activities (karmamudra)—generate the mind as the great dharmamudra (the symbol of speech). One should then meditate the recitation of the essence mantra.

If one meditates generating the thought that the samadhis and the mudras are dharmatā and therefore are not different, the ultimate awakened mind will arise. If one actualizes the meditation, one realizes that all phenomena do not exist apart from one’s mind. The accumulations are gathered and obscurations are purified because of that meditation. One becomes realized because one’s continuum is blessed by the deity of pristine consciousness.


I just don't see any ritual consumption of semen in this text, damn!

M
"Nonduality is merely a name;
that name does not exist."
—Kotalipa
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dzogchungpa
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Re: Liljenberg's Thesis "A critical study of the thirteen later translations of the Dzogchen mind series"

Post by dzogchungpa »

Malcolm wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:15 pmI just don't see any ritual consumption of semen in this text, damn!

That is somewhat disappointing, it's true.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
Tolya M
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Re: Liljenberg's Thesis "A critical study of the thirteen later translations of the Dzogchen mind series"

Post by Tolya M »

leads to the natural manifestation of "the true
nature of things, the [universal] grandmother.
It's too dissapointing... you're right, dzogchungpa.
Pero
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Re: Liljenberg's Thesis "A critical study of the thirteen later translations of the Dzogchen mind series"

Post by Pero »

LMAO guys, your comments can be read in different ways. Although probably Malcolm and Tolya meant it one way ans Dzog meant another. :lol:
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar
Pero
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Re: Liljenberg's Thesis "A critical study of the thirteen later translations of the Dzogchen mind series"

Post by Pero »

In any case, pretty big mistake, but is that from Lipman's translation already or her's?
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar
tingdzin
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Re: Liljenberg's Thesis "A critical study of the thirteen later translations of the Dzogchen mind series"

Post by tingdzin »

Another reason to be wary of English translations. Thanks, Malcolm.
Malcolm
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Re: Liljenberg's Thesis "A critical study of the thirteen later translations of the Dzogchen mind series"

Post by Malcolm »

Pero wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:38 am In any case, pretty big mistake, but is that from Lipman's translation already or her's?
No idea, and I generally don't comment on other folks translations — but that footnote was too funny.
"Nonduality is merely a name;
that name does not exist."
—Kotalipa
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