Very clear statements about the Dzogchen path- Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche
Very clear statements about the Dzogchen path- Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche
The following interview should settle many debates about Dzogchen.
http://levekunst.com/mixing-fire-and-wa ... -rinpoche/
http://levekunst.com/mixing-fire-and-wa ... -rinpoche/
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
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Re: Very clear statements about the Dzogchen path- Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
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Re: Very clear statements about the Dzogchen path- Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche
I like this bit:
Experience is said to be the adornment of naked knowing, present within all beings. Whoever has mind has this knowing since it is the mind’s essence. The relationship between thinking mind and knowing is this: the thinking mind is like the shadow of one’s hand while knowing is the hand itself.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
Re: Very clear statements about the Dzogchen path- Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche
Thank you CrazyWisdom.
This made an impact:
dzogchungpa wrote:I like this bit:Experience is said to be the adornment of naked knowing, present within all beings. Whoever has mind has this knowing since it is the mind’s essence. The relationship between thinking mind and knowing is this: the thinking mind is like the shadow of one’s hand while knowing is the hand itself.
This made an impact:
Tilopa told Naropa, “Theory is like a patch. It will wear and fall off.” After dying, we undergo various pleasant and unpleasant experiences, intense panic, fear and terror. Intellectual understanding does not destroy those fears; it cannot make confusion subside. So, merely to generalize: my essence is devoid of confusion, is useless. It’s only a thought, another concept, which is ineffective at the moment of death,when it comes to deal with confusion.
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Re: Very clear statements about the Dzogchen path- Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche
I enjoyed the interview, but what debates does it settle?Crazywisdom wrote:The following interview should settle many debates about Dzogchen.
http://levekunst.com/mixing-fire-and-wa ... -rinpoche/
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
Re: Very clear statements about the Dzogchen path- Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche
The way to practice the path...dzogchungpa wrote:I enjoyed the interview, but what debates does it settle?Crazywisdom wrote:The following interview should settle many debates about Dzogchen.
http://levekunst.com/mixing-fire-and-wa ... -rinpoche/
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
Re: Very clear statements about the Dzogchen path- Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche
'The'?
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Re: Very clear statements about the Dzogchen path- Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche
Up to you to decideSimon E. wrote:'The'?
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
Re: Very clear statements about the Dzogchen path- Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche
In which case surely its 'One of'
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
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Re: Very clear statements about the Dzogchen path- Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche
I was glad to read this, always nice to confirm my own biases lol. I'll bet it rubs some the wrong way thoughIt is also taught that there is no difference whatsoever between Essence Mahamudra and Dzogchen in meaning, only in terminology.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
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Re: Very clear statements about the Dzogchen path- Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche
Kongtrul, Creation and Completion, Sarah Harding, trans', pp. 49-50.Generally, everything up to the Great Seal is termed "mind path."
Common Great Perfection is also included in this.
The class of exceptional esoteric instructions
is said to be the "awareness path," and as such
it is not definite that one must begin with calm abiding.
When the nature of naked awareness itself without exaggeration or denial is revealed,
it is sufficient just to become accustomed to that.
However, if the true nature is not unerringly revealed,
then even the profound esoteric Instructions will be difficult to assimilate.
In that case, it is better to tread the gradual path.
"Non-Meditation," "Non-distraction," "abandoning mental doings,"
"Maintaining whatever arises," "ordinary mind,"
and "free of intellect" all mean uncontrived.
Whatever abiding or moving is perceived, it is unnecessary to fabricate anything.
Again minding and again concentrating is certainly adding deluded thought onto oneself.
Focusing directly upon bare awareness,
called "Maintaining whatever arises," is the path of all the adepts.
In the ways of applying practice to one's being, such as the Middle Way, Pacification and Severence,
The Great Seal, and common Great Perfection,
Whatever thoughts arise, without making anything out of them,
you look nakedly right at them and they become the path of liberation.
In the path of the Heart-Drop esoteric instructions of Great Perfection,
you look inwardly right at the one who perceives whatever thoughts arise,
and you encounter the essence of reality.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
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Re: Very clear statements about the Dzogchen path- Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche
Thrangu Rinpoche's commentary on the above:
The major distinction between all of these traditions lies between common and uncommon dzogchen. Dzogchen includes three classes of instruction. These are called the mind, space, and instruction classes. Uncommon dzogchen refers to the instruction class, which is considered by that tradition to be the highest level of instruction. Within that there is the essence of the instruction class, called the heart-drop or nying tig teachings. The distinction made in this text between the nying thig approach and that of these other meditative traditions is very subtle, and concerns what you do when a thought arises. In most traditions of meditation, as I have explained, when a thought arises, you look directly at that thought and thereby directly experience its empty nature. However, in the nying thig tradition, when a thought arises, rather than looking directly at the nature of the thought, you look directly at the nature of that which recognizes the thought's arising. This is obviously a very subtle distinction, but the idea is that by looking directly at the nature of that, or who, or what, recognizes the thought's arising, you directly encounter dharmata, the nature of all things. In the former instance, there is a slight sense of your awareness being directed outward at thought; and in the latter, there is a slight sense of its being directed inward back at itself. At this point you are relating to this distinction as theoretical understanding. It's not difficult to understand intellectually the difference between these two ways of looking, but the important thing, since this is meditation instruction, is to actually practice this. Whether you are looking at what arises or looking at that which recognizes what arises, in order to understand what the two approaches mean, you need to actually have attempted them. You need to attempt them again and again until you actually experience them, because the difference between them is profound.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
Re: Very clear statements about the Dzogchen path- Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche
This passage resonates with me:
So - 'don't try this at home'.the great danger is when you just leave naked knowing as an intellectual understanding, that “In Dzogchen there is no thing to meditate upon. There is no thing to view. There is nothing to carry out as an action.” That becomes a nihilistic concept and is completely detrimental to progress, because the final point of the teaching is conceptlessness, being beyond intellectual thinking. Yet, what has happened is that you have created an intellectual idea of Dzogchen and hold on to that idea very tightly. This is a major mistake but it can happen. So, it is very important to bring the instruction into personal experience through the oral guidance of a teacher. Otherwise, simply to have the idea: I am meditating on Dzogchen, is to completely miss the point.
'Only practice with no gaining idea' ~ Suzuki Roshi
Re: Very clear statements about the Dzogchen path- Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche
The definition of Jaxchen.Wayfarer wrote:This passage resonates with me:
the great danger is when you just leave naked knowing as an intellectual understanding, that “In Dzogchen there is no thing to meditate upon. There is no thing to view. There is nothing to carry out as an action.” That becomes a nihilistic concept and is completely detrimental to progress, because the final point of the teaching is conceptlessness, being beyond intellectual thinking. Yet, what has happened is that you have created an intellectual idea of Dzogchen and hold on to that idea very tightly. This is a major mistake but it can happen. So, it is very important to bring the instruction into personal experience through the oral guidance of a teacher. Otherwise, simply to have the idea: I am meditating on Dzogchen, is to completely miss the point.
Re: Very clear statements about the Dzogchen path- Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche
That's an interesting word, would you care to elaborate?
'Only practice with no gaining idea' ~ Suzuki Roshi
Re: Very clear statements about the Dzogchen path- Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche
Some so-called "teachers" out there like Jax teach their students to relate to Dzogchen in the very manner that is being criticized by Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche.Wayfarer wrote:That's an interesting word, would you care to elaborate?
Some people jokingly refer to his teachings as "Jaxchen" because he surely isn't teaching Dzogchen.
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Re: Very clear statements about the Dzogchen path- Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche
Interesting, but this instruction to "recognize the recognizer" is found in a bunch of places, including (I think) what here would be termed "common" paths...dzogchungpa wrote:Thrangu Rinpoche's commentary on the above:The major distinction between all of these traditions lies between common and uncommon dzogchen. Dzogchen includes three classes of instruction. These are called the mind, space, and instruction classes. Uncommon dzogchen refers to the instruction class, which is considered by that tradition to be the highest level of instruction. Within that there is the essence of the instruction class, called the heart-drop or nying tig teachings. The distinction made in this text between the nying thig approach and that of these other meditative traditions is very subtle, and concerns what you do when a thought arises. In most traditions of meditation, as I have explained, when a thought arises, you look directly at that thought and thereby directly experience its empty nature. However, in the nying thig tradition, when a thought arises, rather than looking directly at the nature of the thought, you look directly at the nature of that which recognizes the thought's arising. This is obviously a very subtle distinction, but the idea is that by looking directly at the nature of that, or who, or what, recognizes the thought's arising, you directly encounter dharmata, the nature of all things. In the former instance, there is a slight sense of your awareness being directed outward at thought; and in the latter, there is a slight sense of its being directed inward back at itself. At this point you are relating to this distinction as theoretical understanding. It's not difficult to understand intellectually the difference between these two ways of looking, but the important thing, since this is meditation instruction, is to actually practice this. Whether you are looking at what arises or looking at that which recognizes what arises, in order to understand what the two approaches mean, you need to actually have attempted them. You need to attempt them again and again until you actually experience them, because the difference between them is profound.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Re: Very clear statements about the Dzogchen path- Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche
Although ultimately "recognizing the recognizer" is a provisional step and not the main point. Leaving it there would render the exercise incomplete.Johnny Dangerous wrote:Interesting, but this instruction to "recognize the recognizer" is found in a bunch of places, including (I think) what here would be termed "common" paths...
The purpose of placing the attention on "that which recognizes" is to gain insight into the nature of that noetic capacity.
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Re: Very clear statements about the Dzogchen path- Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche
Thank you for that illuminating response, Mr. Dzogchen!krodha wrote:Although ultimately "recognizing the recognizer" is a provisional step and not the main point. Leaving it there would render the exercise incomplete.Johnny Dangerous wrote:Interesting, but this instruction to "recognize the recognizer" is found in a bunch of places, including (I think) what here would be termed "common" paths...
The purpose of placing the attention on "that which recognizes" is to gain insight into the nature of that noetic capacity.
BTW, it appears that KTR's commentary, in its original form, can be found here:
http://www.rinpoche.com/teachings/creation.pdf
Last edited by dzogchungpa on Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
Re: Very clear statements about the Dzogchen path- Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche
Some folks might think TUR is authoritative, at least those that accept the indispensability of lineage and refuge.Simon E. wrote:In which case surely its 'One of'
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