Chod Damaru vs standard Damaru

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schubertian
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Re: Chod Damaru vs standard Damaru

Post by schubertian »

Sennin wrote: Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:15 am I have a chod damaru for sale at discount if anyone is interested.
drum.jpg
ooo - nice - there's your chod drum Mr/Ms RoadToPines
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Adamantine
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Re: Chod Damaru vs standard Damaru

Post by Adamantine »

Sherab Rigdrol wrote: Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:39 am
Thomas Amundsen wrote: Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:26 am
Sherab Rigdrol wrote: Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:13 am

I agree and have heard the same, however I was told directly by Drupon Lama Karma that a Chod Damaru was absolutely required for wrathful Chod.

Hope this helps!
What's wrathful Chod? The context of what I said previously was Dudjom Troma.
He didn't go into specifics. I had asked him if damaru and kangling were necessary for Chod and that's what he said.
The Dudjom Troma terma cycle is indeed a Chod lineage. It is Chod. You do the full 108 cemetery retreat, etc. if you follow it fully. So the drum is the same. The difference would be according to your particular lineage of Chod, what mantras would be inscribed (ideally in gold) within the drum. In the case of Dudjom Troma is would be those mantras of Troma, and / or the three Kaya mothers (which includes Troma). In other lineages the mantra may be different, even if the deity is the same. So ideally you know which lineage you’d like to follow and you get a drum customized to that. Hope that helps.

Potala Gate prob has Dudjom Chod drums, as Lama Jigme is a Dudjom Tersar Lama.
Last edited by Adamantine on Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chod Damaru vs standard Damaru

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Also, since these ritual implements are actually also samaya substances,,,they are not meant to be shared really. Best to get a new one, not a used one. Get your new one blessed by a lineage master, (just like its important to have statues and paintings consecrated. The Lama activates the mantra in the drum) and then reserve it for your use alone. Unless of course, a great master gives you one that THEY’VE used. In that case, you’re very lucky.
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Re: Chod Damaru vs standard Damaru

Post by Sennin »

Adamantine wrote: Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:47 am Also, since these ritual implements are actually also samaya substances,,,they are not meant to be shared really. Best to get a new one, not a used one. Get your new one blessed by a lineage master, (just like its important to have statues and paintings consecrated. The Lama activates the mantra in the drum) and then reserve it for your use alone. Unless of course, a great master gives you one that THEY’VE used. In that case, you’re very lucky.
You have a point but I didn't really think of that when I posted. I guess cause it's fairly unused, won't be used and has been more or less just shelved and I wanted to make this one available.
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Re: Chod Damaru vs standard Damaru

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Sennin wrote: Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:07 am
Adamantine wrote: Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:47 am Also, since these ritual implements are actually also samaya substances,,,they are not meant to be shared really. Best to get a new one, not a used one. Get your new one blessed by a lineage master, (just like its important to have statues and paintings consecrated. The Lama activates the mantra in the drum) and then reserve it for your use alone. Unless of course, a great master gives you one that THEY’VE used. In that case, you’re very lucky.
You have a point but I didn't really think of that when I posted. I guess cause it's fairly unused, won't be used and has been more or less just shelved and I wanted to make this one available.
Yeah and I’m just sharing what I was taught.. might be that others have different teachings on these things. Anyway often there are spare drums and bells at centers that practice Chod and Troma Tsok, etc. for people to use who don’t have or are visiting and don’t have with them.. so you could also donate it to a center like that, since those spare implements are meant to
be used by anyone who needs in the moment. Personal serious practice, in retreat, etc.. is another matter.
Last edited by Adamantine on Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chod Damaru vs standard Damaru

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Also, I have two Chod drums. I’ll take them both to retreat in case one breaks or gets off tune. It’s never bad to have a spare...
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Re: Chod Damaru vs standard Damaru

Post by Sennin »

Adamantine wrote: Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:27 am Also, I have two Chod drums. I’ll take them both to retreat in case one breaks or gets off tune. It’s never bad to have a spare...
I'm so horrible with the bell and damaru :lol:
Separately I can keep a ok rhythm but soon as I try both...
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Re: Chod Damaru vs standard Damaru

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Sennin wrote: Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:40 am
Adamantine wrote: Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:27 am Also, I have two Chod drums. I’ll take them both to retreat in case one breaks or gets off tune. It’s never bad to have a spare...
I'm so horrible with the bell and damaru :lol:
Separately I can keep a ok rhythm but soon as I try both...
That’s totally normal for a beginner. If you just practice, practice, and practice some more.. then you’ll get the hang of it. Then it will eventually become totally effortless. Once that happens, the practice picks up intensity.
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Re: Chod Damaru vs standard Damaru

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schubertian wrote: Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:35 am
Grigoris wrote: Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:52 pm
RoadToPines wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:03 pmIs it permissible to use a chod damaru for any practice/ceremony such as Throma or other deity practices? (Assuming one has the necessary transmissions for the practices.)
I was under the impression that Throma practice is a chod practice.
My impression is that the question is "Is it permissible to buy only a single damaru that I can use for both Troma (who is wrathful no doubt - it's her name!) as well as other deity practices, and invocations, and so on??" - I'm no lama but I would say that you are going to have an awfully sore hand if you do that - buy a second damaru that is small if you would like to use it for other practices.

Here's a sheep damaru you could use for that - but it will set you back $$$
https://potalagate.com/products/1186449458
Okay. I get it now.

Generally the chod drum is used for chod and the smaller drum is used for music offerings in deity practices.

I could envision a situation where, lacking a small drum, the chod drum could be used, but...

The small drum could be used for chod in a pinch, but you would have to be pretty proficient with it and generally...

Then there are other types of drums to consider. These are used in deity practices and you use a striker:
drum ii.jpg
drum ii.jpg (89.31 KiB) Viewed 1888 times
drum.jpg
drum.jpg (152.63 KiB) Viewed 1888 times
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Re: Chod Damaru vs standard Damaru

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Grigoris wrote: Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:52 pmI was under the impression that Throma practice is a chod practice.
You are of course totally correct that Throma and chod are deeply entangled. You could even say (this is just my own interpretation, btw) that the Throma chod is a particular expression of the whole Throma thing, a leaf on the branch, so to speak.

But if you look, for example, at the "intermediate length" Throma practice, there are lots of things that are very reminiscent of chod, but are not quite it. It starts, for example, with Throma's Laughter, and the tsog feast is visualised in a way that looks quite similar to the chod feasts. (I guess it would be better not to go into more detail here.) So although it is more of a "conventional" (maybe not quite the right word) deity sadhana than a chod, the large chod-style drum is used.

I put "intermediate" in inverted commas, because I think this takes a couple of hours or more to get through. I have no knowledge of the presumable "full length" version or how long it takes. Probably someone here does... ?
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Re: Chod Damaru vs standard Damaru

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Lingpupa wrote: Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:38 am
Grigoris wrote: Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:52 pmI was under the impression that Throma practice is a chod practice.
You are of course totally correct that Throma and chod are deeply entangled. You could even say (this is just my own interpretation, btw) that the Throma chod is a particular expression of the whole Throma thing, a leaf on the branch, so to speak.

But if you look, for example, at the "intermediate length" Throma practice, there are lots of things that are very reminiscent of chod, but are not quite it. It starts, for example, with Throma's Laughter, and the tsog feast is visualised in a way that looks quite similar to the chod feasts. (I guess it would be better not to go into more detail here.) So although it is more of a "conventional" (maybe not quite the right word) deity sadhana than a chod, the large chod-style drum is used.

I put "intermediate" in inverted commas, because I think this takes a couple of hours or more to get through. I have no knowledge of the presumable "full length" version or how long it takes. Probably someone here does... ?

I did address this above already. Assuming you are talking about Dudjom Lingpa’s intermediate length Troma Tsok. This is still from the larger Chod terma cycle. And btw that lasts from 4-5 hours usually... depends who is leading and what length of mantra accumulation and breaks there are..the long one is a full day affair... this is usually only done in the dedicated Gompas, like Dudjom Gompa in Kathmandu. Re: Dudjom Lingpa’s
Troma Chod cycle, refer to this book if anyone has genuine interest, though it’s important to find a teacher from the lineage to clarify anything you find in there: https://www.berotsana.org/products/dudjom-lingpas-chod
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Re: Chod Damaru vs standard Damaru

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chod drum for general practice? say ganapuja, thun? is this acceptable?
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Re: Chod Damaru vs standard Damaru

Post by javier.espinoza.t »

Lukeinaz wrote: Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:58 pm chod drum for general practice? say ganapuja, thun? is this acceptable?
In ChNN system no, it is not acceptable to make such innovations.
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Re: Chod Damaru vs standard Damaru

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Adamantine wrote: Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:56 pm I did address this above already.
Sorry, I missed that.
Adamantine wrote: Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:56 pm Re: Dudjom Lingpa’s Troma Chod cycle, refer to this book if anyone has genuine interest, though it’s important to find a teacher from the lineage to clarify anything you find in there: https://www.berotsana.org/products/dudjom-lingpas-chod
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Re: Chod Damaru vs standard Damaru

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javier.espinoza.t wrote: Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:29 pm
Lukeinaz wrote: Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:58 pm chod drum for general practice? say ganapuja, thun? is this acceptable?
In ChNN system no, it is not acceptable to make such innovations.
there is no inovation. where it says play drum i am just wondering if chod drum ok.
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Re: Chod Damaru vs standard Damaru

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Adamantine wrote: Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:56 pm
I did address this above already. Assuming you are talking about Dudjom Lingpa’s intermediate length Troma Tsok. This is still from the larger Chod terma cycle. And btw that lasts from 4-5 hours usually... depends who is leading and what length of mantra accumulation and breaks there are..the long one is a full day affair... this is usually only done in the dedicated Gompas, like Dudjom Gompa in Kathmandu. Re: Dudjom Lingpa’s
Troma Chod cycle, refer to this book if anyone has genuine interest, though it’s important to find a teacher from the lineage to clarify anything you find in there: https://www.berotsana.org/products/dudjom-lingpas-chod
My center does the mantra accumulation at a very tight clip and we have it down to a tight 3 hours. I imagine that if you're really taking your time with it, you could easily spend 6 hours on it alone. As an aside, does anyone know where I can find the short Troma sadhana? Anyone know how long that one takes?
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Re: Chod Damaru vs standard Damaru

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Tlalok wrote: Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:34 pm
Adamantine wrote: Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:56 pm
I did address this above already. Assuming you are talking about Dudjom Lingpa’s intermediate length Troma Tsok. This is still from the larger Chod terma cycle. And btw that lasts from 4-5 hours usually... depends who is leading and what length of mantra accumulation and breaks there are..the long one is a full day affair... this is usually only done in the dedicated Gompas, like Dudjom Gompa in Kathmandu. Re: Dudjom Lingpa’s
Troma Chod cycle, refer to this book if anyone has genuine interest, though it’s important to find a teacher from the lineage to clarify anything you find in there: https://www.berotsana.org/products/dudjom-lingpas-chod
My center does the mantra accumulation at a very tight clip and we have it down to a tight 3 hours. I imagine that if you're really taking your time with it, you could easily spend 6 hours on it alone. As an aside, does anyone know where I can find the short Troma sadhana? Anyone know how long that one takes?
Yeah, it’s really variable. It also depends if you’re including any extra prayers at the beginning, during the break, or at the end.. how long the pause during Tsok distribution is before the remainder collection, etc. That’s why I said it depends who is leading it. Usually in my experience it’s scheduled as a full day affair with a lunch break in the middle, often after the dharmapala section or the confession. Sometimes the accumulation itself can go on for a good 20-30min. Other times the accumulation is negligible, which is up to the presiding Lama. So with all these factors, it’s highly variable. The short sadhana should be easily found at any tersar center. It’s extremely short: just 2 pages. More for personal use in a pinch .
Although Dungse Thinley Norbu Rinpoche developed an elaboration around that concise Tsok, adding a number of other things so it’s not very short anymore, yet still shorter than the intermediate length, and much simpler. I believe there is a recording and a text for this innovation which should be available through Garab Dorje Rinpoche’s Dudjom Dharma Houses.
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Re: Chod Damaru vs standard Damaru

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Tlalok wrote: Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:34 pm
Adamantine wrote: Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:56 pm
I did address this above already. Assuming you are talking about Dudjom Lingpa’s intermediate length Troma Tsok. This is still from the larger Chod terma cycle. And btw that lasts from 4-5 hours usually... depends who is leading and what length of mantra accumulation and breaks there are..the long one is a full day affair... this is usually only done in the dedicated Gompas, like Dudjom Gompa in Kathmandu. Re: Dudjom Lingpa’s
Troma Chod cycle, refer to this book if anyone has genuine interest, though it’s important to find a teacher from the lineage to clarify anything you find in there: https://www.berotsana.org/products/dudjom-lingpas-chod
My center does the mantra accumulation at a very tight clip and we have it down to a tight 3 hours. I imagine that if you're really taking your time with it, you could easily spend 6 hours on it alone. As an aside, does anyone know where I can find the short Troma sadhana? Anyone know how long that one takes?
https://www.berotsana.org/products/trom ... se-sadhana

Light of Berotsana has recordings of Sangye Khandro performing it, and it is about 1 hour and 15 minutes. When my teacher does more or less this practice, I think it's the Thibley Norbu version that Adamantine is talking about, it takes about 2.5 hours because we pause to let people pick up their drums, eat tsok, etc.
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Re: Chod Damaru vs standard Damaru

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Thomas Amundsen wrote: Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:53 pm
Tlalok wrote: Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:34 pm
Adamantine wrote: Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:56 pm
I did address this above already. Assuming you are talking about Dudjom Lingpa’s intermediate length Troma Tsok. This is still from the larger Chod terma cycle. And btw that lasts from 4-5 hours usually... depends who is leading and what length of mantra accumulation and breaks there are..the long one is a full day affair... this is usually only done in the dedicated Gompas, like Dudjom Gompa in Kathmandu. Re: Dudjom Lingpa’s
Troma Chod cycle, refer to this book if anyone has genuine interest, though it’s important to find a teacher from the lineage to clarify anything you find in there: https://www.berotsana.org/products/dudjom-lingpas-chod
My center does the mantra accumulation at a very tight clip and we have it down to a tight 3 hours. I imagine that if you're really taking your time with it, you could easily spend 6 hours on it alone. As an aside, does anyone know where I can find the short Troma sadhana? Anyone know how long that one takes?
https://www.berotsana.org/products/trom ... se-sadhana

Light of Berotsana has recordings of Sangye Khandro performing it, and it is about 1 hour and 15 minutes. When my teacher does more or less this practice, I think it's the Thibley Norbu version that Adamantine is talking about, it takes about 2.5 hours because we pause to let people pick up their drums, eat tsok, etc.
That looks great, just fyi , this is the one compiled by Thinley Norbu Rinpoche.. The core is the actual concise Troma feast... it’s a compilation with many insertions to make it a more rounded practice.

See from the description
A revelation of Traktung Dudjom Lingpa with supplementation by Kyabje Dudjom Rinpoche

Compiled by Dungse Thinley Norbu Rinpoche and translated by Light of Berotsana
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Re: Chod Damaru vs standard Damaru

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Lukeinaz wrote: Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:16 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote: Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:29 pm
Lukeinaz wrote: Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:58 pm chod drum for general practice? say ganapuja, thun? is this acceptable?
In ChNN system no, it is not acceptable to make such innovations.
there is no inovation. where it says play drum i am just wondering if chod drum ok.
Don't think so. It is the big ones used in pujas like the ones Grigoris has shared. Not damaru.
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