Emptiness practice off the cushion

Discussion of meditation in the Mahayana and Vajrayana traditions.
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Rick
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Re: Emptiness practice off the cushion

Post by Rick »

Well at least the stone can take solace from knowing it is immersed in water. And, who knows, maybe a crack will form and some will seep inside?
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Malcolm
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Re: Emptiness practice off the cushion

Post by Malcolm »

Rick wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:51 pm Well at least the stone can take solace from knowing it is immersed in water. And, who knows, maybe a crack will form and some will seep inside?
If you just want follow your own trip, why bother asking questions?

You don’t understand the meaning of refuge, that’s your basic problem.
Norwegian
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Re: Emptiness practice off the cushion

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Rick wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:51 pm Well at least the stone can take solace from knowing it is immersed in water. And, who knows, maybe a crack will form and some will seep inside?
No, that's not the case. The rock is forever dry on the inside.

So, here it's a case of being surrounded by water but always being dry on the inside, which is not something to take solace from. It's a miserable situation, since no matter how close you are to water, you will never be affected by it, even if you wanted to.

If you are starving, it is not helpful looking at pictures of nice food. You can only get release from your misery by actually eating and enjoying the food. This means moving away from being passive, and becoming active.
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Rick
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Re: Emptiness practice off the cushion

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Malcolm wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:58 pm If you just want follow your own trip, why bother asking questions?
My trip is guided and influenced by others' trips.
You don’t understand the meaning of refuge
Yes I am not fond of committing to one thing. So many flowers! I want to smell them all.
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Rick
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Re: Emptiness practice off the cushion

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Norwegian wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:08 pm
Rick wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:51 pm Well at least the stone can take solace from knowing it is immersed in water. And, who knows, maybe a crack will form and some will seep inside?
No, that's not the case. The rock is forever dry on the inside.
I know that's the intended interpretation of the metaphor. But I prefer thinking that there might be a way for the water to seep its way in: a crack, semi-porous membrane, osmosis. Is this magical thinking? Maybe, but maybe not.
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Malcolm
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Re: Emptiness practice off the cushion

Post by Malcolm »

Rick wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:22 pm
Yes I am not fond of committing to one thing.
Then, Ferdinand, you will never get anywhere.
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Rick
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Re: Emptiness practice off the cushion

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I am right here in this lovely field filled with flowers!

Yet I am searching like mad for 'something better.'

What is up with Ferdinand?
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master of puppets
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Re: Emptiness practice off the cushion

Post by master of puppets »

I think he is trying to say quitting your mind is best.
Malcolm
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Re: Emptiness practice off the cushion

Post by Malcolm »

Image
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Rick
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Re: Emptiness practice off the cushion

Post by Rick »

One of my favorite stories. So many flowers!
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desert_woodworker
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Re: Emptiness practice off the cushion

Post by desert_woodworker »

Is it "necro"-mancing to reply in a thread that's 7 weeks old? Admins may pls advise this newbie (just been born).

Meanwhile, I'd offer the following:

If you find yourself during the day spinning the wheels of wandering thoughts, just stop it. It's too tiring and puts blinders on you (on horses, I think they're called "blinkers").

Let the light of the refrigerator go out when you close the door (save power and filament lifetime).

Only put the periscope up when you need to.

My late teacher would say to a practitioner at times, "Just keep empty".

That seems a good and honorable way to preserve our respect for and relation with emptiness.

Other ways? Yes, they exist. But the above is a good operational way, I think (a good yoga?"). ;-) It's a practice, however, and not to be confused with a result.

I'd say the best way to honor and greet emptiness continuously (uninterruptedly) in daily life is just to awaken. Awakening must be nourished, and practice(s) must be kept up. Aitken Roshi used to say, "Take good care of your realization!"

And the Ch'an worthies of yore were fond to say, "Take good care of yourselves!"

:namaste: ,

--Joe
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Rick
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Re: Emptiness practice off the cushion

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desert_woodworker wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:39 pm Is it "necro"-mancing to reply in a thread that's 7 weeks old?
Not for me (the OP), I just happened to revisit this thread yesterday, so good timing! (Btw I was shocked to find out the thread is just 7 weeks old, I would have guessed a year or two, guess I've transcended time ... or it's transcended me.)

Thanks for your good simple tips for how to "keep empty." I find that with emptiness, dependent arising, the three marks, awareness ... I'm getting better and better at practicing all of these on the cushion, but carrying that practice into everyday life remains very elusive. It's as if some part of me is happy to go into a different mode of being while on the cushion, but finds it an unwanted intrusion off.
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Malcolm
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Re: Emptiness practice off the cushion

Post by Malcolm »

Rick wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:07 pm
desert_woodworker wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:39 pm Is it "necro"-mancing to reply in a thread that's 7 weeks old?
Not for me (the OP), I just happened to revisit this thread yesterday, so good timing! (Btw I was shocked to find out the thread is just 7 weeks old, I would have guessed a year or two, guess I've transcended time ... or it's transcended me.)

Thanks for your good simple tips for how to "keep empty." I find that with emptiness, dependent arising, the three marks, awareness ... I'm getting better and better at practicing all of these on the cushion, but carrying that practice into everyday life remains very elusive. It's as if some part of me is happy to go into a different mode of being while on the cushion, but finds it an unwanted intrusion off.
In post-equipoise, just keep in mind everything is just an illusion, an echo, etc.
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desert_woodworker
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Re: Emptiness practice off the cushion

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Yes, time flies, perhaps, when a pandemic throws a monkey-wrench into our biological clocks!

Anyway, what's a week or seven, or a year, among friends (in the Dharma).
Rick wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:07 pmThanks for your good simple tips for how to "keep empty." I find that with emptiness, dependent arising, the three marks, awareness ... I'm getting better and better at practicing all of these on the cushion, but carrying that practice into everyday life remains very elusive. It's as if some part of me is happy to go into a different mode of being while on the cushion, but finds it an unwanted intrusion off.
Nice, that's a really good close observation and a frank admission, at the end, there. Not everyone would "own-up" to that, publicly.

I think sometimes we go to the cushion as .. or even for a "respite", ...or at least enjoy it as such. "The trick" (!) may be to enjoy (and share) ALL of life as a "respite".
Hmmph, Rick, I'm going to try that. Glad we talked! :namaste:

;)
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Berry
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Re: Emptiness practice off the cushion

Post by Berry »

desert_woodworker wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:01 pm Yes, time flies, perhaps, when a pandemic throws a monkey-wrench into our biological clocks!

Anyway, what's a week or seven, or a year, among friends (in the Dharma).
Rick wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:07 pmThanks for your good simple tips for how to "keep empty." I find that with emptiness, dependent arising, the three marks, awareness ... I'm getting better and better at practicing all of these on the cushion, but carrying that practice into everyday life remains very elusive. It's as if some part of me is happy to go into a different mode of being while on the cushion, but finds it an unwanted intrusion off.
Nice, that's a really good close observation and a frank admission, at the end, there. Not everyone would "own-up" to that, publicly.

I think sometimes we go to the cushion as .. or even for a "respite", ...or at least enjoy it as such. "The trick" (!) may be to enjoy (and share) ALL of life as a "respite".
Hmmph, Rick, I'm going to try that. Glad we talked! :namaste:

;)
Just letting go of concepts and learning to relax completely (flippy floppy) can be helpful .....

:hi:
Leave the polluted water of conceptual thoughts in its natural clarity. Without affirming or denying appearances, leave them as they are. When there is neither acceptance nor rejection, mind is liberated into mahāmudra.

~ Tilopa
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Rick
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Re: Emptiness practice off the cushion

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Berry wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:29 pm Just letting go of concepts and learning to relax completely (flippy floppy) can be helpful .....
Thanks. :-)

My snag with relaxing completely is that when I let/encourage this to happen, I tend to go into a kind of hypnagogic state, like a light trance. And not the spiritual kind! More like a happy zombie trance. Silver lining: Malcolm is always telling me to see things as in a dream, maybe hypnagogia is a step in the right direction? (Or it could be sluggish spaced-out mind, can't remember the Buddhist word for that.)
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Berry
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Re: Emptiness practice off the cushion

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Rick wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:59 pm
Berry wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:29 pm Just letting go of concepts and learning to relax completely (flippy floppy) can be helpful .....
Thanks. :-)

My snag with relaxing completely is that when I let/encourage this to happen, I tend to go into a kind of hypnagogic state, like a light trance. And not the spiritual kind! More like a happy zombie trance. Silver lining: Malcolm is always telling me to see things as in a dream, maybe hypnagogia is a step in the right direction? (Or it could be sluggish spaced-out mind, can't remember the Buddhist word for that.)
No, a trance- like spaced out state isn't what you need. Years ago Thrangu Rinpoche once explained it very nicely to me by simply saying "relax" and then kind of demonstrated making himself visibly relaxed as he sat there smiling! Its really important to understand how to relax mind and body and gently let go of all that constant mental chit-chat!
Try practising outside in the open air as well, it really does make a difference. If you can, sit under a tree or somewhere quiet like that. Practice with your eyes partly open and looking towards your nose. Don't mentally follow any appearances or sounds, just let them be as they are.

.Goodnight.
Leave the polluted water of conceptual thoughts in its natural clarity. Without affirming or denying appearances, leave them as they are. When there is neither acceptance nor rejection, mind is liberated into mahāmudra.

~ Tilopa
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Rick
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Re: Emptiness practice off the cushion

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Yeah, I'm good at being off (relaxed), quite good at being on (alert), not so good being both at the same time.
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Re: Emptiness practice off the cushion

Post by desert_woodworker »

Relaxing can be helped a lot by ...sensing.

That is, it's observed that relaxation is a combination of sensation and releasing. Releasing is hard to do if you can't feel what you're releasing.

A good practice is to jump around a bit before sitting, or do some shaking of arms and limbs for a few minutes, especially if you can get away with it and are not in a public zendo or other practice place. :) Think of the kind of whacky dancing that the scarecrow did in The Wizard of Oz. Or just shake the arms and hands.

Then, when you sit down, you'll feel arms and legs "glowing" a bit. There is definitely a residual sensation! While briefly focusing on that sensation (those sensations, plural), next is to relax, while the sensation(s) subside(s). As the sensations subside, relaxation deepens. And deepens. With each exhale, one may even imagine (or enforce gently upon the body and nervous system... breath by breath, for a minute), "Sink... sink... sink".

(not "think... think"...!) ;)

Well, this is yoga-teacher-ly stuff, but I have indeed found it helpful and enabling, right from the start.

What's this got to do with emptiness? Well, I'd say that without relaxation, there is no touching the essence of mind... which is to say... emptiness.

Off-the-cushion emptiness practice is helped very much by having a physical yoga practice, and an aerobic practice, under one's belt.

(In Rinzai Zen practice, work with the breath and with the hara (belly) is very developmental and pivotal. "Something about", that middle of the body! :) A "Middle Way" all its own).

Best,

--Joe
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Re: Emptiness practice off the cushion

Post by amanitamusc »

Rick wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 2:31 pm Greet! :-)

What off-the-cushion practices are good for deepening one's relationship with emptiness?

Many thank!

Rick
This is a good question for your Teacher when you settle on one.What you are missing here is intimate instruction.
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