Silent Illumination

[Nosta]

Mod note: This post was an answer to this old thread: https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.p ... 60#p293760

Hi everybody, I decided to come back to this my old topic because now I found the most similar teachings to the experience I spoke about in the original post: Silent Illumination*. After careful reading and practice, I think thats the most similar experience to no toughts and no need for toughts. Beeing aware of things and not engaging in the urge of new chain of toughts, its a refreshing experience, just beeing there. SIlent Illumination, after trying different types of meditation, looks like my favourite type of meditation.


*I read the book from Master Sheng Yen, called "The Method of no method - The Chan Practice of Sillent Illumination".

[PadmaVonSamba]

As a dull minded person, lately I increased my attention and concentration because of meditation. One thing that I notice is that sometimes I am able to simply shut up all my toughts, all my discursive toughts, the internal speech that is always present. I know, from reading, that one should just be mindfull about our toughts, without erasing them or without chasing them. Nevertheless, sometimes I try and just shut up my mind completly. And If I am doing this while driving or walking for example, I will be more aware of my mental silence and thats where things get really strange because it seems that I am loosing that feeling of myself. No one is there, just a screen (my vision) seeing things happening (the cars on the road or the trees, whatever). Its not easy to put it into words, but when my mind shuts up all the internal talk and I just observe I feel so strange that after some while I need to comeback to the normal "mode". That doesent mean that I am getting crazy or achieving something so dangerous that I need to switch to the "normal-thinking-mode", quiet the contrary, its something so...powerful?...or maybe something so different.

1) Do you understand what is this "blank" thing I am feeling? I mean, have you ever feel the same kind of thing?
2) Why is not usual to see masters motivating students for such "switch off" toughts? The most usual thing is the midfull stuff, be mindfull of your toughts (but dont chase them) and observe them passing away, etc?
3) Is that idea (switch off toughts) something related to a given buddhist practice?

Thanks for your insights.

That all sounds great to me.
No thoughts… no sense of self…
it sounds like you are doing everything right!

Why not sit back and enjoy it?

[JimTempleman]

Hi everybody, I decided to come back to this my old topic because now I found the most similar teachings to the experience I spoke about in the original post: Silent Illumination*. After careful reading and practice, I think thats the most similar experience to no toughts and no need for toughts. Beeing aware of things and not engaging in the urge of new chain of toughts, its a refreshing experience, just beeing there. SIlent Illumination, after trying different types of meditation, looks like my favourite type of meditation.

*I read the book from Master Sheng Yen, called "The Method of no method - The Chan Practice of Sillent Illumination".

The version of Silent Illumination described by Chan Master Sheng Yen was the path I chose too. I had to do a lot of meditation to reach the point of having a samadhi in which I experienced no thought, for about 30 minutes straight. (But that's another topic.)

Master Sheng Yen published two books about Silent Illumination:
- (2012) THE METHOD OF NO-METHOD: The Chan Practice of Silent Illumination
- (2018) ILLUMINATING SILENCE: Insights on the Path of Chinese Zen

The Method of No Method comes across as the more authoritative of the two.

He also offers a very good chapter about Silent Illumination in his book:
- (2002) Hoofprint of the Ox: Principles of the Chan Buddhist Path as Taught by a Modern Chinese Master
This chapter comes closer to describing Master Sheng Yen's earlier “more ‘formless’ method of Silent Illumination”.

Here’s a translation of Hongzhi Zhengjue’s (1091–1157) Song of Silent Illumination, from Chan Master Sheng Yen’s (2013) The Poetry of Enlightenment:

Silently and serenely, one forgets all words,
Clearly and vividly, it appears before you.
When one realizes it, time has no limits.
When experienced, your surroundings come to life.
Singularly illuminating is this bright awareness,
Full of wonder is the pure illumination.
The moon’s appearance, a river of stars,
Snow-clad pines, clouds hovering on mountain peaks.
In darkness, they glow with brightness.
In shadows, they shine with a splendid light.
Like the dreaming of a crane flying in empty space,
Like the clear, still water of an autumn pool,
Endless eons dissolve into nothingness,
Each indistinguishable from the other.
In this illumination all striving is forgotten.
Where does this wonder exist?
Brightness and clarity dispel confusion
On the path of Silent Illumination,
The origin of the infinitesimal.
To penetrate the extremely small,
There is the gold shuttle on a loom of jade.
Subject and object influence each other.
Light and darkness are mutually dependent.
There is neither mind nor world to rely on,
Yet do the two interact, mutually.
Drink the medicine of correct views.
Beat the poison-smeared drum.
When silence and illumination are complete
Killing and bringing to life are choices I make.
At last, through the door, one emerges.
The fruit has ripened on the branch.
Only this Silence is the ultimate teaching.
Only this Illumination, the universal response.
The response is without effort.
The teaching, not heard with the ears.
Throughout the universe, all things
Emit light and speak the Dharma.
They testify to each other,
Answering each other’s questions.
Mutually answering and testifying,
Responding in perfect harmony.
When illumination is without serenity,
Then will distinctions be seen.
Mutually testifying and answering,
Giving rise to disharmony.
If within serenity illumination is lost,
All will become wasteful and secondary.
When Silent Illumination is complete,
The lotus will blossom, the dreamer will awaken.
The hundred rivers flow to the ocean,
The thousand mountains face the loftiest peak.
Like the goose preferring milk to water,
Like a busy bee gathering pollen,
When Silent Illumination reaches the ultimate,
I carry on the original tradition of my sect.
This practice is called Silent Illumination.
It penetrates from the deepest to the highest.

[Nosta]

Hi! Thanks for sharing that!
Beautiful poem indeed!

I am still reading the book Method of no Method, slowly, to study it. I mean, I read and I practice for some days before keep going. There is no point reading if there is no practice to understand what I read. Thats why I am still in chapter 3

The author is the same Sheng Yeng who teaches Pure Land?

What about your practice Jim, how do you feel about it and how does affect your life? Thanks for sharing

[JimTempleman]

Beautiful poem indeed!

Yes! The more you practice Silent Illumination, the more you will connect with it.

I am still reading the book Method of no Method, slowly, to study it. ...

I agree. Practice as you read it carefully. There’s a lot there.
Some of his other books can be a bit dry, and if you read a lot of them, a little repetitive. But I trust him a great deal. He’s more straightforward than most. Poetic writers can enchant you, but it’s hard to rely on something that adds ambiguity to a difficult topic. Master Sheng Yen stays on point. And he mixes in some really deep insights here & there.

The author is the same Sheng Yeng who teaches Pure Land?

Yes. Thanks to you I just found that out & confirmed it. Master Sheng Yen.

What about your practice Jim, how do you feel about it and how does affect your life?

I did a lot of survey reading, and then converged on Silent Illumination as my sitting practice of choice. I like it a great deal! I probably experiment with it more than I should. A problem arises when you read about other approaches, even closely related one’s. It’s very easy to start mixing in other ways of treating even the same basic method. It’s a balance between finding what works for you & staying on course with the primary method. If you can find someone who teaches Silent Illumination, Shikantaza, or Zazen in your area, it would be great to find a good teacher. Shikantaza comes pretty close to the method described in The Method of No Method, because it’s ‘Just Sitting!’

Thanks for sharing

Thank you!

[Ayu]

Mod note: This post was an answer to this old thread: https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.p ... 60#p293760

Hi everybody, I decided to come back to this my old topic because now I found the most similar teachings to the experience I spoke about in the original post: Silent Illumination*. After careful reading and practice, I think thats the most similar experience to no toughts and no need for toughts. Beeing aware of things and not engaging in the urge of new chain of toughts, its a refreshing experience, just beeing there. SIlent Illumination, after trying different types of meditation, looks like my favourite type of meditation.


*I read the book from Master Sheng Yen, called "The Method of no method - The Chan Practice of Sillent Illumination".

I split the topic to this new one. Most people do not regard the date of the posts and therefore digging up old topics often becomes quite puzzling.
Please make yourself familiar with our new rule about necroing topics

[Nosta]

Mod note: This post was an answer to this old thread: https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.p ... 60#p293760

Hi everybody, I decided to come back to this my old topic because now I found the most similar teachings to the experience I spoke about in the original post: Silent Illumination*. After careful reading and practice, I think thats the most similar experience to no toughts and no need for toughts. Beeing aware of things and not engaging in the urge of new chain of toughts, its a refreshing experience, just beeing there. SIlent Illumination, after trying different types of meditation, looks like my favourite type of meditation.


*I read the book from Master Sheng Yen, called "The Method of no method - The Chan Practice of Sillent Illumination".

I split the topic to this new one. Most people do not regard the date of the posts and therefore digging up old topics often becomes quite puzzling.
Please make yourself familiar with our new rule about necroing topics

Thank you for that and sorry for my failure. I will be careful in the future.

[Nosta]

Beautiful poem indeed!

Yes! The more you practice Silent Illumination, the more you will connect with it.

I am still reading the book Method of no Method, slowly, to study it. ...

I agree. Practice as you read it carefully. There’s a lot there.
Some of his other books can be a bit dry, and if you read a lot of them, a little repetitive. But I trust him a great deal. He’s more straightforward than most. Poetic writers can enchant you, but it’s hard to rely on something that adds ambiguity to a difficult topic. Master Sheng Yen stays on point. And he mixes in some really deep insights here & there.

The author is the same Sheng Yeng who teaches Pure Land?

Yes. Thanks to you I just found that out & confirmed it. Master Sheng Yen.

What about your practice Jim, how do you feel about it and how does affect your life?

I did a lot of survey reading, and then converged on Silent Illumination as my sitting practice of choice. I like it a great deal! I probably experiment with it more than I should. A problem arises when you read about other approaches, even closely related one’s. It’s very easy to start mixing in other ways of treating even the same basic method. It’s a balance between finding what works for you & staying on course with the primary method. If you can find someone who teaches Silent Illumination, Shikantaza, or Zazen in your area, it would be great to find a good teacher. Shikantaza comes pretty close to the method described in The Method of No Method, because it’s ‘Just Sitting!’

Thanks for sharing

Thank you!

Nice to read your answers, thank you very much
I will seek Shikantaza, but where I live, the most probable place to find meditation centers or teachers its more than 1 hour away.

Well, I must stick with what I have and keep training.
I am very thankful to find someone (you) who also enjoy the practice this method.

[SilenceMonkey]

Why don't you connect with some students of Master Sheng Yen online? There is Guo Gu and also Ven. Guo Yuan in the US who practice Silent Illumination.

I am still reading the book Method of no Method, slowly, to study it. ...

I agree. Practice as you read it carefully. There’s a lot there.
Some of his other books can be a bit dry, and if you read a lot of them, a little repetitive. But I trust him a great deal. He’s more straightforward than most. Poetic writers can enchant you, but it’s hard to rely on something that adds ambiguity to a difficult topic. Master Sheng Yen stays on point. And he mixes in some really deep insights here & there.

I completely agree. I love the two books Nosta mentioned as well, because they so beautifully and faithfully communicate the practice. They were translated by John Crook, who was IMO the best translated Master Sheng Yen ever had. Some of the books in English are dry because the translator was maybe not a great practitioner. Guo Gu was a pretty good translator of Master Sheng Yen's work, and he's still alive and well. Unfortunately, John Crook passed in 2011.

If you want to hear Master Sheng Yen's voice, there are many videos on youtube with subtitles.

[Nosta]

Why don't you connect with some students of Master Sheng Yen online? There is Guo Gu and also Ven. Guo Yuan in the US who practice Silent Illumination.

I am still reading the book Method of no Method, slowly, to study it. ...

I agree. Practice as you read it carefully. There’s a lot there.
Some of his other books can be a bit dry, and if you read a lot of them, a little repetitive. But I trust him a great deal. He’s more straightforward than most. Poetic writers can enchant you, but it’s hard to rely on something that adds ambiguity to a difficult topic. Master Sheng Yen stays on point. And he mixes in some really deep insights here & there.

I completely agree. I love the two books Nosta mentioned as well, because they so beautifully and faithfully communicate the practice. They were translated by John Crook, who was IMO the best translated Master Sheng Yen ever had. Some of the books in English are dry because the translator was maybe not a great practitioner. Guo Gu was a pretty good translator of Master Sheng Yen's work, and he's still alive and well. Unfortunately, John Crook passed in 2011.

If you want to hear Master Sheng Yen's voice, there are many videos on youtube with subtitles.

I will check that, thanks for the advices