Undriven-Mind: letting go of the next thought

[JimTempleman]

I’ve been studying & practicing Silent Illumination, without a teacher, since I retired at the end of 2016. I’ve read a considerable amount of Zen & Chan literature, and rely most heavily on the writings of Chan Master Sheng Yen for guidance. Prior to this, I had studied Ki-Aikido for seven years and then assisted in teaching Ki based mind-body coordination (Koichi Tohe’s Shinshin-toitsu-do) for about ten years.

I was doing two 35-minute sessions of Silent Illumination a day and meditating while taking a 30-minute walk (weather permitting). I was practicing watching my thoughts arise, pass by freely, and fade away. This approach was effective at quieting thoughts while sitting, but towards the end of walking meditation I was regularly facing extended trains-of-thought that could break down my ability to watch the thoughts fall away. (I got caught up in the thoughts ‘themselves’.)

So, I started watching the trains-of-thoughts more carefully when seated. I viewed them as products of the narrative-mind automatically driving from one thought to the next. Eventually I noticed that after a thought started to fade, a mild enthusiasm for the next (yet-to-come) thought would appear. Since each new thought is the best next thought the narrative-mind can produce, they tend to be novel and of ‘interest.’ So, I decided to gently let go of this enthusiasm: to fade it away. It’s partly a matter of realizing that I don’t need to have another thought right away, and also a leap of faith that letting go of the trains-of-thought is the right thing to do.

Not long after adopting this approach, near the beginning of my next seated session, I encountered something unexpected. All thoughts stopped completely and I was only aware of watching what was in front of me. I would describe it as like the first moment when you look through an open window before settling into what you see, but this ‘at first glance’ state continued until the end of the session, when the timer went off. No after effects were apparent after the session.

I was planning to go through the same procedure during the next session. But once I sat down to practice there were no longer any thoughts to watch. I found that, as soon as I relaxed into Silent Illumination, I reentered the ‘open perception’ state. I also found that I could enter and maintain this state during 20-minute walks.

I wasn’t sure what to make of this. When I originally thought of trying it, I expected that it would, at best, slowly reduce the momentum of my trains-of-thought. This was the first time in my adult life that my mind suddenly changed how it functioned. At one level, what I call ‘undriven-mind,’ was novel and effortless. But it was also a bit boring, and I didn’t notice any great ‘wisdom’ pouring forth. I wasn’t sure if it was a true Mahayana samadhi, or was I “dwelling on the dark side of the mountain in a ghost cave?” After experiencing it regularly, I found myself getting a bit drowsier over the course of each day, so I stopped doing it.

Of course, I also tried to figure out what it was. The first thing I realized was that by letting go of enthusiasm for the next thought I was letting go of my ‘desire’ for it. This corresponds to the Third Noble Truth (The Truth of Cessation!): letting go of desire leads to the cessation of suffering. I recently read Yoshito Hakedas’ translation of “The Awakening of Faith in Mahayana” Sutra, where he uses the term: ‘cessation’ to refer to the samatha (tranquility) method of meditation. Here are two quotes from the Sutra:

… All thoughts, as soon as they are conjured up, are to be discarded, and even the thought of discarding them is to be put away, … When this discipline is well-mastered after a long period of practice, the ideations of his mind will be arrested. Because of this, his power of executing "cessation" will gradually be intensified and become highly effective, so that he will conform himself to, and be able to be absorbed into, the "concentration (samadhi) of Suchness". Then … he will quickly attain the state in which there will be no retrogression. …

… Now, if he practices "cessation" only, then his mind will be sunk in self-complacency and he will be slothful; he will not delight in performing good acts … It is, therefore, necessary to practice "clear observation" [vipassana] as well.

I was greatly relieved to find that the two ‘side-effects’ of undriven-mind that concerned me the most (that it was irreversible & focusing on it extensively caused lethargy) were signs of experiencing samadhi. This leads me to believe that it was most likely a true Mahayana samadhi experience. I can still relax into a less intense version of this state. I typically back off a bit so that I can think (subtly) during Silent Illumination practice. I still can no longer watch my thoughts arise and pass away.

In summary: There are two stages to the method. First learn to watch thoughts arise and pass. Without attaching to them, let them fade away. Second, carefully notice your subtle enthusiasm for the yet-to-come thought to appear. Then fade away this desire to allow yourself to rest without further thoughts. This two-stage approach subdues thoughts enough to keep them from arising. If you can no longer watch your thoughts arise and fall away, then you might have already transformed your awareness in this way.

My goal in communicating this experience is to describe, what was for me, a fairly direct means of dropping into Mahayana samadhi. I remain open minded, and welcome different interpretations of this approach and its result.

[Matt J]

Jim,

You might want to check out the videos, and perhaps even make a connection with Guo Gu if you want to make a go of it. He has some retreats/events coming up. He was one of the first people to learn Silent Illumination from Master Sheng Master. He also has some videos on youtube.

https://guogulaoshi.com/

[LastLegend]

You might have an advantage of forming samadhi there considering you have training in sitting meditation and work your way up to non-dual Wisdom...which should be the only focus to reveal it more everyday. While other traditions have their non-dual Wisdom pointed out and work their way to stabilize it.

[JimTempleman]

Jim,

You might want to check out the videos, and perhaps even make a connection with Guo Gu if you want to make a go of it. He has some retreats/events coming up. He was one of the first people to learn Silent Illumination from Master Sheng Master. He also has some videos on youtube.

https://guogulaoshi.com/

Yes. I read his latest book Silent Illumination, and his first book The Essence of Chan a translation of Bodhidharma's two entries and four practices. He also served as Sheng Yen’s translator for a number of the Master’s books.

I enjoyed all of his books. Here’s a short expert from Guo’s Silent Illumination:

For this reason, Chan practice involves “purifying and wiping away the various deluded conditioning and illusory habits.” Thoughts and emotions are only temporary functions of the mind. We can’t get caught up with them. We need to expose, embrace, work with, and let go of them. In this process, we regain the most natural state of being: empty yet wakeful; still and aware. Master Yongjia Xuanjue (665–713) describes it like this:

Wakeful yet quiescent is correct; oblivious and quiescent is wrong.
Quiescent yet wakeful is correct; mental scattering in wakefulness is wrong.

(In Xuanjue’s terms, my experience was correct.)

Thank you for the URL. Guo Gu appears to encourage connections within the Chan community. I will look into it further!
Regards.

[Jesse]

Eventually I noticed that after a thought started to fade, a mild enthusiasm for the next (yet-to-come) thought would appear. Since each new thought is the best next thought the narrative-mind can produce, they tend to be novel and of ‘interest.’ So, I decided to gently let go of this enthusiasm: to fade it away. It’s partly a matter of realizing that I don’t need to have another thought right away, and also a leap of faith that letting go of the trains-of-thought is the right thing to do.

Not long after adopting this approach, near the beginning of my next seated session, I encountered something unexpected. All thoughts stopped completely and I was only aware of watching what was in front of me. I would describe it as like the first moment when you look through an open window before settling into what you see, but this ‘at first glance’ state continued until the end of the session, when the timer went off. No after effects were apparent after the session.

I was planning to go through the same procedure during the next session. But once I sat down to practice there were no longer any thoughts to watch. I found that, as soon as I relaxed into Silent Illumination, I reentered the ‘open perception’ state. I also found that I could enter and maintain this state during 20-minute walks.

Since certain experiences can be spoken of in differing ways, as we all perceive things a bit differently.. I wanted to ask you a couple of questions.

This "Enthusiasm for the next thought" as you described it, would you also label it as "a sense of unsatisfactoryness, or unease that beckons the mind to produce more thoughts, emotions, perceptions. Or simply an itch that seeks to fulfill itself by creating/latching on to additional mental activity?"

Did you feel that if by some means you could extinguish this 'itch', you feel as if you could sit happily for the rest of your life in your chair/cushion? Perfectly content doing absolutely nothing but sitting there?

[JimTempleman]

This "Enthusiasm for the next thought" as you described it, would you also label it as "a sense of unsatisfactoryness, or unease that beckons the mind to produce more thoughts, emotions, perceptions. Or simply an itch that seeks to fulfill itself by creating/latching on to additional mental activity?"

Before deciding to fade away the enthusiasm:
I’d say I was looking forward for the next thought to come & I didn’t want to be without a new thought. More of a ‘want’ than an ‘itch.’ When I am in the state of watching thoughts arise & fall, I’m not very articulate. There is only a really basic sense of ‘feeling’ going on.

While fading away the enthusiasm for the next though:
Letting the enthusiasm/desire/looking-forward fade away. Come to think of it I was treating the enthusiasm just like I was treating the thoughts themselves. Watching for the enthusiasm to appear, not resisting it, but letting it fade. However, I think there is always a kind of willing to extinguish the thought (or enthusiasm) going on in the back of your mind when you’re letting the mind settle.

Did you feel that if by some means you could extinguish this 'itch', you feel as if you could sit happily for the rest of your life in your chair/cushion? Perfectly content doing absolutely nothing but sitting there?

Before deciding to fade away the enthusiasm:
No. I was strictly focusing in on the fading of one thought, and the current ‘expectation’ of the next thought.

While fading away the enthusiasm for the next though:
Just letting each thought fade and the enthusiasm for the yet-to-come thought fade – that’s all. – Until the thoughts just stop. Then there is just observing. Neither happy or sad. No thoughts about feelings.

[LastLegend]

^^^Nice...
Would be nice to activate such ‘feeling’ instantly.

[JimTempleman]

^^^Nice...
Would be nice to activate such ‘feeling’ instantly.

Like most things sudden, it was more like a tipping point.
It took a long time to get good at watching the thoughts come & go.
I recommend not trying this until one is good at quieting the mind simply by watching thoughts come & go. It’s like drying out the wood before setting fire to it – only in reverse.

Song of Mind – by the Ox Head School:

Thoughts arise and pass away,
The preceding no different from the succeeding.
If the succeeding thought does not arise,
The preceding thought cuts itself off.

from Chan Master Sheng Yen (2013) The Poetry of Enlightenment
I have an affinity for the Song of Mind.

[SilenceMonkey]

I second the motion to connect with a teacher in the lineage. Guo Gu is awesome. There's also Linda Huang with None Zen Center, who does primarily huatou practice.

[LastLegend]

^^^Nice...
Would be nice to activate such ‘feeling’ instantly.

Like most things sudden, it was more like a tipping point.
It took a long time to get good at watching the thoughts come & go.
I recommend not trying this until one is good at quieting the mind simply by watching thoughts come & go. It’s like drying out the wood before setting fire to it – only in reverse.

Song of Mind – by the Ox Head School:

Thoughts arise and pass away,
The preceding no different from the succeeding.
If the succeeding thought does not arise,
The preceding thought cuts itself off.

from Chan Master Sheng Yen (2013) The Poetry of Enlightenment
I have an affinity for the Song of Mind.

I am thinking: “thoughts” is umbrella term here. It might be intention that you are watching.

[Matt J]

Quiescent yet wakeful is correct; mental scattering in wakefulness is wrong.

[/quote]

(In Xuanjue’s terms, my experience was correct.)
[/quote]

I'd be careful, Zen is a slippery. Often when we think we have it, we most certainly do not.

[LastLegend]

I can’t speak for others. I can speak for myself. Intention can be traced back to empty mind. So the question can be asked: where it arises from? This is individual experience and what each individual sees is different. What we are doing with intention? I don’t know. How they interpret it what arises or nothing arises. Whatever. That’s individual karma from learning. I know nothing about that.

[LastLegend]

Things can be described but how everyone of is experience it is different because different karma. So.

[JimTempleman]

I can’t speak for others. I can speak for myself. Intention can be traced back to empty mind. So the question can be asked: where it arises from? This is individual experience and what each individual sees is different. What we are doing with intention? I don’t know. How they interpret it what arises or nothing arises. Whatever. That’s individual karma from learning. I know nothing about that.

– I suspect everything can be traced back to ‘empty mind’ (Buddha nature, Indra’s net, Storehouse Consciousness).
– I suspect that ‘everything’ (in Mind) is originally created through learning, through experience, except for ‘empty mind’ itself.
– I view ‘thoughts’ as those big clunky (coarse) things, usually expressed in words.
– Your term “intention” seems to me to be more closely related to my term ‘enthusiasm’. They are more subtle & have some influence over thoughts.

[JimTempleman]

Quoting Xuanjue:

Quiescent yet wakeful is correct; mental scattering in wakefulness is wrong

(In Xuanjue’s terms, my experience was correct.)

Quiescent enough to have no coarse thoughts when seated, for a 35 minute practice.
Wakeful enough to walk around the block. Nothing more.

I'd be careful, Zen is a slippery. Often when we think we have it, we most certainly do not.

Yes, Chan is slippery. Yet everyone must find their own guideposts.
When I read Chan/Zen literature & practice, I try to fit it into my understanding of how the mind works. At the same time, what I find in Chan/Zen keeps changing my understanding of how the mind works.

[LastLegend]

I can’t speak for others. I can speak for myself. Intention can be traced back to empty mind. So the question can be asked: where it arises from? This is individual experience and what each individual sees is different. What we are doing with intention? I don’t know. How they interpret it what arises or nothing arises. Whatever. That’s individual karma from learning. I know nothing about that.

– I suspect everything can be traced back to ‘empty mind’ (Buddha nature, Indra’s net, Storehouse Consciousness).
– I suspect that ‘everything’ (in Mind) is originally created through learning, through experience, except for ‘empty mind’ itself.
– I view ‘thoughts’ as those big clunky (coarse) things, usually expressed in words.
– Your term “intention” seems to me to be more closely related to my term ‘enthusiasm’. They are more subtle & have some influence over thoughts.

Personally: I examine my mind often to see what’s barricading our nature. It might not be that obvious.

A lot of discussion has been on getting instruction from a qualified teacher...but not many people are able to get a teacher for some reason. I feel if people are confident and brave enough in their experience through self practice, they should not let their confidence shake.

Still those who met qualified teachers not many have personal relationship, and they might not have regular contact with their teachers.

[LastLegend]

To meet a qualified guru or teacher is good fortunate those who can’t they just work with what they have.

[JimTempleman]

A lot of discussion has been on getting instruction from a qualified teacher...but not many people are able to get a teacher for some reason. I feel if people are confident and brave enough in their experience through self practice, they should not let their confidence shake.

Thank you. I feel that I received a good foundation for meditation from practicing Koichi Tohe Sensei’s Shinshin-toitsu-do. There I learned to sit, Ki Principles, Ki Meditation, and Ki Breathing. My primary Sensi was George Simcox, with visiting Sensi Will Reed (the lead English translator for Koichi Tohe). The main thing they drill into you is how to relax while remaining alert, with good muscle tone. Ki Testing is a method in which another person pushes on you or tries to bend your arm while you remain relaxed and extend Ki (to remain alert and settled), so as not to collapse.

When I read the first chapter’s of Chan Master Sheng Yen’s The Method of No Method book about Silent Illumination it was like coming back home to Ki training: relax without going limp, soften the tension around your eyes, let you weight settle downward, breath calmly with your abdomen, clear your mind. ...

Personally: I examine my mind often to see what’s barricading our nature. It might not be that obvious.

In general, I view Chan/Zen to involve shifting awareness away from the narrative-mind and towards the higher levels of the mind’s capacity to perceive & act. I’m also more interested in following Master Sheng Yen’s ‘formless’ version of Silent Illumination (described in Hoofprint of the Ox), , rather than the embodied version which is like an extended version of Shikantaza, because I’d rather ‘look’ through the mind than the body.

The problem is that once I adopt that ‘attitude’ it becomes very difficult to find a teacher. And I don’t want to sit in on a teacher’s instruction while following my own approach. If I cannot empty my cup, I don’t want to ask an instructor to fill it. It isn’t fair to them.

Still those who met qualified teachers not many have personal relationship, and they might not have regular contact with their teachers.

In the ideal world that would be great. I’m just very happy that I’ve found Master Sheng Yen’s extensive writings. (That’s as close as I can get to Nirvana in Samsara at the moment.) Albeit, after the experience described at the top of this thread, I feel like I need to go back & read many of his works again, with fresh eyes.

[LastLegend]

There is a diverse practitioners even within one particular tradition. What works for me might not work for others. We are not all receiving the same teaching same understanding. For me personally is to transcend the source of duality to fully arrive at self-nature (non-dual Wisdom). Self-nature is a Zen language it’s called such because nothing gives birth to it.

Progress is based on part...like building a wall using bricks stacking on each other.

[JimTempleman]

There is a diverse practitioners even within one particular tradition. What works for me might not work for others. We are not all receiving the same teaching same understanding.

Good point!

For me personally is to transcend the source of duality to fully arrive at self-nature (non-dual Wisdom). Self-nature is a Zen language it’s called such because nothing gives birth to it.

One of the great things about Buddhists is that we’re all in search of the Inconceivable.

Progress is based on part...like building a wall using bricks stacking on each other.

Agreed.