Human birth

Discussion of meditation in the Mahayana and Vajrayana traditions.
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Minobu
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Re: Human birth

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Aemilius wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 8:33 am
Minobu wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 5:28 am
PrideTheStudent wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:05 am Why, is it that humans birth are the only capable being of reaching enlightenment. When the deities are already enlightened, have spiritual powers which make it easier to cultivate, and gain powers humans have no powers at all and are born suffering
It's to do with the chakras .we have the optimum amount ...gods only have three.
How about the gods in the Kamaloka, who have different kinds or levels of sexual activity?
No idea...I was just taught when the discussion came up about the whole which being has the best opportunity for enlightenment and was told it has to do with our chakras.

I am also under the impression the gods though very advanced fall back into the lower realms after they die , due to burning up merit karma...so they do not seem to be enlightened from that angle.

The first sign is their beloved Lotus cushions start to wilt and then they give off an odious odor ...the other gods toss them flowers but stay away due to the reminder of what is in store for them as well..Also due to their advanced abilities granted to their being they are aware of what next life is in store for them..they fall into lowers realms..

just what i was taught..maybe not everyone sees it this way.
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Minobu
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Re: Human birth

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Wait a second here...who says the gods are enlightened...they have powers incredible but enlightened ? I don't think so.
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Aemilius
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Re: Human birth

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The question was about the possibility of enlightenment in different realms. If the higher gods have three chakras, they can be transformed into the Three kayas of Buddhahood, according to several tantras.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
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Minobu
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Re: Human birth

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Aemilius wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 3:56 pm The question was about the possibility of enlightenment in different realms. If the higher gods have three chakras, they can be transformed into the Three kayas of Buddhahood, according to several tantras.
what god attained Buddhahood?
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Minobu
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Re: Human birth

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hey if you are listening Lord Brahma and family ...i'm a big fan and offer nourishment everyday via chanting The Odaimoku .

Also recall what happened to me on the day after the three day period when Lord Ganesha was drinking Milk all over the world for three days ;)
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Minobu
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Re: Human birth

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sorry folks just a bit of insurance , hate for the gods to think i'm thinking stuff like I is better than them or something...

As Nichiren Buddhist we respect them and Nichiren Shonin defo had them working to protect him as any kid in japan would know and study.

Also on our Gohonzon is the characters for Lord Brahma and Lord Indra along with a Shinto god of war.
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Aemilius
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Re: Human birth

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Minobu wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 5:28 pm
Aemilius wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 3:56 pm The question was about the possibility of enlightenment in different realms. If the higher gods have three chakras, they can be transformed into the Three kayas of Buddhahood, according to several tantras.
what god attained Buddhahood?
In the pureland of Buddha Amitabha the beings born there have the bodies of gods or humans, see the 48 vows of Buddha Amitabha. The gods are mentioned in Luis O. Gomez translation of the Sukhavati vyuha sutra.

I read a biography of an Arhat who lived in 1950's. After he had attained awakening, his former wife from a previous life came to him in a form of a deva. She was somewhat offended that he had become enlightened, behind her back so to speak. The arhat promised to teach her the Dharma, after she had become a deva in a lower deva realm. Which she did in a blink of an eye. Then the arhat explained the Dharma to her and she became enlightened.

There is a sutta where Mahamaudgalyayana discusses with Sakra the King of gods in Thirtythree, at end of the sutra Buddha says that in the past he too has explained the Dharma to Sakra (or Sakka). The Pali sutra does not say exactly that Sakra attains enlightenment. It is probably their party line. Sakra appears also in the Perfection of Wisdom Sutra in Hundred Thousand Lines, and there he understands the message of the this sutra.

"Moggallana, I remember explaining the release through the destruction of craving in short to Sakka the king of gods, thus.
The Blessed One said thus and venerable Maha Moggallana delighted in the words of the Blessed One." from Cuulatanhaasankhaya Sutta
The Shorter Discourse On the Destruction of Craving
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
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Aemilius
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Re: Human birth

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Holy Teaching of Vimalakirti, tr. Robert Thurman, chapter 6, Inconceivable Liberation:
" When patriarch Mahakashyapa had uttered this discourse, thirty-two thousand gods conceived the spirit of unexcelled, perfect enlightenment."

Perfection of Wisdom in 700 Lines, tr. Edward Conze, part A, Exposition of the Field of Merit:
"And the thought of 16 000 monks were freed from the outflows without any further clinging, and 700 nuns, 300 laymen, 40 000 laywomen and
6 000 niyutas of kotis of gods of the sphere of sense-desire produced the dispassionate, unstained eye of Dharma in dharmas."
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
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Minobu
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Re: Human birth

Post by Minobu »

So it is possible

Well done , thank you.
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