Buddha's Meditation at Gaya

Discussion of meditation in the Mahayana and Vajrayana traditions.
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Budai
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Buddha's Meditation at Gaya

Post by Budai »

In the Lotus Sutra Buddha mentions that when He sat down at Gaya He was already Enlightened.
At that time the World-Honored One, seeing that the bodhisattvas repeated their request three times and more, spoke to them, saying: "You must listen carefully and hear of the Thus Come One's secret and his transcendental powers. In all the worlds the heavenly and human beings and asuras all believe that the present Shakyamuni Buddha, after leaving the palace of the Shakyas, seated himself in the place of practice not far from the city of Gaya and there attained annuttara-samyak-sambodhi. But good men, it has been immeasurable, boundless hundreds, thousands, ten thousands, millions of nayutas of kalpas since I in fact attained Buddhahood.

...

...

"Good men, if there are living beings who come to me, I employ my Buddha eye to observe their faith and to see if their other faculties are keen or dull, and then depending upon how receptive they are to salvation, I appear in different places and preach to them under different names, and describe the length of time during which my teachings will be effective. Sometimes when I make my appearance I say that I am about to enter nirvana, and also employ different expedient means to preach the subtle and wonderful Law, thus causing living beings to awaken joyful minds.

"Good men, the Thus Come One observes how among living beings there are those who delight in a little Law, meager in virtue and heavy with defilement. For such persons I describe how in my youth I left my household and attained anuttara-samyak-sambodhi. But in truth the time since I attained Buddhahood is extremely long, as I have told you. It is simply that I use this expedient means to teach and convert living beings and cause them to enter the Buddha way. That is why I speak in this manner.
-Lotus Sutra, Chapter 16, Life Span of the Thus Come One.

What do you believe His state of mind during the meditation was? Clearly, it was not unknown to Himself. He must have understood His mind fully, and that He worked everything out already but just was showing the meditation to others observing Him in His mind how to attain that level of Enlightenment. It must have even been there in His open mind, His own full Enlightenment, as He describes in the Lotus Sutra His meditation at Gaya He was already Enlightened. So what is that state of mind called that He had before it, in meditation? What do you presume were the secrets in the Buddha's mind were that He didn't reveal to others throughout His life even though He was fully Enlightened before Gaya?

At Gaya, what did He gain?

Let me know in Scriptural references or in your own knowledge about understanding the subject, with preferably Mahayana views.

Thank you!!!!!

Brahma.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Buddha's Meditation at Gaya

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

He says “I” but we all know there is no “I”
So he is referring to beginningless Dharmakaya.
It’s like talking about the water in a watermelon,
That water has been around for a million years, as rain, as pee, as snow, as rivers and lakes. Now it’s a melon.
There’s no difference between one Buddha and another, merely the order of appearance.

More to the point of this teaching itself, however, is that all beings, throughout uncountable lifetimes, have always had Buddha nature. In a sense, you and I and everyone is a Buddha, and has always been a Buddha, at least potentially, but just haven’t revealed it yet.
But, we all know that, too.

I have no scriptural authority for this statement whatsoever.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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FiveSkandhas
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Re: Buddha's Meditation at Gaya

Post by FiveSkandhas »

At Gaya, what did He gain?

According to the Hua-yen school and other Mahayanists, the Avatamsaka sutra is an expression of the content of Shakyamuni Buddha's experience under the Bodhi tree.
According to this sutra, Shakyamuni expounded the teaching it contains immediately after he attained enlightenment under the bodhi tree
https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/dic/Content/F/111
"One should cultivate contemplation in one’s foibles. The foibles are like fish, and contemplation is like fishing hooks. If there are no fish, then the fishing hooks have no use. The bigger the fish is, the better the result we will get. As long as the fishing hooks keep at it, all foibles will eventually be contained and controlled at will." -Zhiyi

"Just be kind." -Atisha
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kirtu
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Re: Buddha's Meditation at Gaya

Post by kirtu »

Brahma wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:19 am In the Lotus Sutra Buddha mentions that when He sat down at Gaya He was already Enlightened.
...
What do you believe His state of mind during the meditation was? Clearly, it was not unknown to Himself. He must have understood His mind fully, and that He worked everything out already but just was showing the meditation to others observing Him in His mind how to attain that level of Enlightenment. It must have even been there in His open mind, His own full Enlightenment, as He describes in the Lotus Sutra His meditation at Gaya He was already Enlightened. So what is that state of mind called that He had before it, in meditation? What do you presume were the secrets in the Buddha's mind were that He didn't reveal to others throughout His life even though He was fully Enlightened before Gaya?

At Gaya, what did He gain?

Let me know in Scriptural references or in your own knowledge about understanding the subject, with preferably Mahayana views.
This depends on what POV one takes wrt Shakyamuni's enlightenment. Even in Mahayana it is not universally asserted that he was enlightened already and all was merely upaya.
What do you believe His state of mind during the meditation was?
Some Mahayana asserts that "Shakyamuni was an ordinary sentient being" - which IGNORES his activity as a bodhisattva over three eons - to "he was a hair's width away from the 1st bhumi" (which is at least a position that can be supported through the sutras and suttas) - to "he was a 10th bhumi bodhisattva" (also seemingly supportable through sutras) to he was fully enlightened and everything was upaya.

So in all but the very last case he had some obscurations left to purify.
What do you presume were the secrets in the Buddha's mind were that He didn't reveal to others throughout His life even though He was fully Enlightened before Gaya?
He revealed pretty much everything he could in the 40+ years after his enlightenment and he certainly revealed all the major practices for all the different types of sentient beings who can receive his teaching in this dispensation.. It is true that he gave different people different practices. It is also true that the Vajrayana asserts that he didn't reveal much tantra and left that to later emanations such as Padmasambhava. But he did reveal the Kalachakra for example.

There is also the sutta where he asks his students which is more, the number of leaves in the forest or the leaves one can hold in one's hand and that his knowledge was like the number of leaves in the forest.

But the point is that sentient beings can't purify all their obscurations in a single instant neither can they embody perfect Buddhahood in a single instant (although they can in fact purify a lot in a short time and their wisdom can actually "expand" also in a short time).

Kirt
“Where do atomic bombs come from?”
Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
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kirtu
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Re: Buddha's Meditation at Gaya

Post by kirtu »

The object of Shakyamuni Buddha's meditation under the Bodhi Tree is reported in the sutras and suttas. There is also a tantra or tantra commentary that discusses this.

In the sutras and suttas Shakyamuni Buddha begins his meditation with shamatha/calming meditation based on an experience of spontaneous deep shamatha he had as a child. Note that Shakyamuni was an expert meditator at this point and had mastered meditation leading to rebirth in the Formless Realms. Nonetheless he began his meditation with shamatha/calming meditation followed by vipashyana. He directed his vipashyana to recover memories of his previous lives and he directly saw the results of karma. He then discovered the Four Noble Truths. Although he was enlightened that night, Shakyamuni didn't discover dependent origination directly that night. This happened a full seven days later (MN 26 however seems to say that he did indeed discover dependent origination that night though).

Suttas/sutras: Udana 1.1-3 Bodhi Tree Suttas, Majjhima Nikaya 36 Maha-Saccaka Sutta: The Longer Discourse to Saccaka, Majjhima Nikaya 26 (which seems to say that Shakyamuni did indeed discover dependent origination that night), Avatamsaka-sutra

There is a tantra or tantra commentary (which I have not read) that reports that as Shakyamuni began his meditation under the Bodhi Tree he remembered a tantra practice that he had been taught in a previous life by a previous Buddha and he then began to practice that.
“Where do atomic bombs come from?”
Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
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