"Cessation of feeling and perception"

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Artziebetter1
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"Cessation of feeling and perception"

Post by Artziebetter1 »

Mod note: OP is referring to this old thread https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f ... 5&start=20

I always feared cessation of feeling and perception until I read the unbinding Nibbāna Sutta wich helped me understand why these attainments are superior to worldly bliss.

This is a great thread with a lot of information so thanks

Is a Buddha’s nonperception absolute or is this a subtle perception and wich allows him/her to engage with sentient beings?
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: "Cessation of feeling and perception"

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Cessation of “feeling” and cessation of “perception” are two different things.
“Feeling” as we generally refer to it can really only be described in terms of the experience in samsara.
By “Perception” I am guessing that you mean some kind of awareness, or cognition.
Awareness can either be obscured or distorted by the kleshas, by ignorance, meaning a mind that does not see the true nature of existence, which is the experience for Sentient beings trapped in the ignorance of samsara,
Or awareness can be unimpeded, free of distortion and confusion, seeing the truth of the nature of existence, which is the awareness of a Buddha.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook develops outward insight.
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Aryjna
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Re: "Cessation of feeling and perception"

Post by Aryjna »

Artziebetter1 wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:11 am Mod note: OP is referring to this old thread https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f ... 5&start=20

I always feared cessation of feeling and perception until I read the unbinding Nibbāna Sutta wich helped me understand why these attainments are superior to worldly bliss.

This is a great thread with a lot of information so thanks

Is a Buddha’s nonperception absolute or is this a subtle perception and wich allows him/her to engage with sentient beings?
The Nibbana sutta has nothing to do with buddhahood in the first place. It is talking about the state of an arhat.
Artziebetter1
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Re: "Cessation of feeling and perception"

Post by Artziebetter1 »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:18 pm Cessation of “feeling” and cessation of “perception” are two different things.
“Feeling” as we generally refer to it can really only be described in terms of the experience in samsara.
By “Perception” I am guessing that you mean some kind of awareness, or cognition.
Awareness can either be obscured or distorted by the kleshas, by ignorance, meaning a mind that does not see the true nature of existence, which is the experience for Sentient beings trapped in the ignorance of samsara,
Or awareness can be unimpeded, free of distortion and confusion, seeing the truth of the nature of existence, which is the awareness of a Buddha.
A tathagata has thinking based on previous effort but it is also said he has no mental factors.It would seem that this is him being unperceptive but still programmed to do effortless compassionate activity even if he has no perception With kleshas or unimpeded.so is this a effortless perception without seeing forms,hearing sounds etc.that you’re talking about?and are there any sources which say a Buddha has unimpeded awareness free from distortion and confusion and Kleshas?Mipham says mental factors come to a complete halt and longchenpa basically says the same.are these only confused mental factors ?am I interpreting this wrongly?I just would like a source which says what you’re saying,just to be fully confident.

I’ve read the parts of the uttaratantra that say a Buddha is never unaware etc but I just don’t know if they mean in terms of actual awareness or in terms of describing the action of what awareness to sentient beings does.basically if it means straightforward what it says as many Buddhist texts have a different meaning ascribed to words than normal context.
Artziebetter1
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Re: "Cessation of feeling and perception"

Post by Artziebetter1 »

Aryjna wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 6:12 pm
Artziebetter1 wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:11 am Mod note: OP is referring to this old thread https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f ... 5&start=20

I always feared cessation of feeling and perception until I read the unbinding Nibbāna Sutta wich helped me understand why these attainments are superior to worldly bliss.

This is a great thread with a lot of information so thanks

Is a Buddha’s nonperception absolute or is this a subtle perception and wich allows him/her to engage with sentient beings?
The Nibbana sutta has nothing to do with buddhahood in the first place. It is talking about the state of an arhat.
Still I see why a cessation of feeling is superior to the feeling bliss like Hinduism or Jainism has now.there is no desire,attachment,loss or stress in such a state just pure peace.
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PeterC
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Re: "Cessation of feeling and perception"

Post by PeterC »

Artziebetter1 wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:36 am
Aryjna wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 6:12 pm
Artziebetter1 wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:11 am Mod note: OP is referring to this old thread https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f ... 5&start=20

I always feared cessation of feeling and perception until I read the unbinding Nibbāna Sutta wich helped me understand why these attainments are superior to worldly bliss.

This is a great thread with a lot of information so thanks

Is a Buddha’s nonperception absolute or is this a subtle perception and wich allows him/her to engage with sentient beings?
The Nibbana sutta has nothing to do with buddhahood in the first place. It is talking about the state of an arhat.
Still I see why a cessation of feeling is superior to the feeling bliss like Hinduism or Jainism has now.there is no desire,attachment,loss or stress in such a state just pure peace.
You've experienced those states you described in Hinduism and Jainism?
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: "Cessation of feeling and perception"

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Artziebetter1 wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:36 am Still I see why a cessation of feeling is superior to the feeling bliss like Hinduism or Jainism has now.there is no desire,attachment,loss or stress in such a state just pure peace.
If you look up the Four Seals of Buddhism (not to be confused with the Four Noble Truths), this essentially says that that which is temporary won’t provide satisfaction that is permanent.

Feelings, both good and bad, come and go. It’s a mistake to think that Buddhism leads to some kind of dulling of the senses. Dharma practice should actually make one keenly aware of their true feelings, with great clarity rather than with confusion. But there’s a recognition that the feelings are just temporary. So, the point is not regarding this or that emotion as permanent.
One can fully enjoy happiness without depending on it; and can fully experience sadness, but without wallowing in it.
The “peace” then, is the satisfaction resulting from a kind of emotional stability, rather than being happy all the time specifically. It’s like having a friend who stays with you regardless of the situation. When Buddhism talks about “refuge” this is precisely what it means, like having a solid shelter that stays up, rain or shine.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook develops outward insight.
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