Physical issues around sitting

Discussion of meditation in the Mahayana and Vajrayana traditions.
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NoName
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Physical issues around sitting

Post by NoName »

Hi,

I don't know if this is right to put here, but I have a physical issue with a varicose vain that makes sitting still not particularly safe for me. It is annoyingly placed under the knee, so any position where the knee is bent, including chair meditation can potentially exacerbate it. I can sometimes sit with my leg stretched, or further out, or in a keeling sit with legs spread wider, but it is not ideal.

Are there any traditions where the sitting practice is not necessary, or where I can sit in a variation of a pose/change it up in a while? Are there any recommendations for particular poses that I should try out?
Thank you
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Physical issues around sitting

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Walking meditation may be an option.
If there is a position where you can remain sitting the longest time, go for that. But don’t avoid changing positions if it’s what your body requires.

The most important thing is for the mind to sit.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
Malcolm
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Re: Physical issues around sitting

Post by Malcolm »

NoName wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:30 pm Hi,

I don't know if this is right to put here, but I have a physical issue with a varicose vain that makes sitting still not particularly safe for me. It is annoyingly placed under the knee, so any position where the knee is bent, including chair meditation can potentially exacerbate it. I can sometimes sit with my leg stretched, or further out, or in a keeling sit with legs spread wider, but it is not ideal.

Are there any traditions where the sitting practice is not necessary, or where I can sit in a variation of a pose/change it up in a while? Are there any recommendations for particular poses that I should try out?
Thank you
You can sit with that knee raised up, like this:

Image
NoName
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Re: Physical issues around sitting

Post by NoName »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:08 pm Walking meditation may be an option.
If there is a position where you can remain sitting the longest time, go for that. But don’t avoid changing positions if it’s what your body requires.

The most important thing is for the mind to sit.
Thank you :)
Malcolm wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:24 pm
NoName wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:30 pm Hi,

I don't know if this is right to put here, but I have a physical issue with a varicose vain that makes sitting still not particularly safe for me. It is annoyingly placed under the knee, so any position where the knee is bent, including chair meditation can potentially exacerbate it. I can sometimes sit with my leg stretched, or further out, or in a keeling sit with legs spread wider, but it is not ideal.

Are there any traditions where the sitting practice is not necessary, or where I can sit in a variation of a pose/change it up in a while? Are there any recommendations for particular poses that I should try out?
Thank you
You can sit with that knee raised up, like this:

Image
I think that would actually make it much worse, because the issue happens when the knee is bent...good to know there is a history of alternative postures though.
Dmitry
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Re: Physical issues around sitting

Post by Dmitry »

Since meditation is not a posture, no particular posture is required. The pose chosen needs to be stable and comfortable. So a restful posture like Savasana (Corpse Pose) might be comfortable for you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shavasana

Image

Savasana is used in the Tibetan Buddhist practice of phowa (samkranti in Sanskrit), practitioners consciously prepare for death through acts of meditation and devotion.

Good luck.
SilenceMonkey
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Re: Physical issues around sitting

Post by SilenceMonkey »

I know of some Theravada and Zen teachers that have taught to stand while meditating, as a strategy suited to an individual person. In my experience, you can cultivate a lot of mindfulness in the standing posture.

The four traditional postures for meditating are walking, standing, sitting and lying down.
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:08 pm The most important thing is for the mind to sit.
:thumbsup:
NoName
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Re: Physical issues around sitting

Post by NoName »

how do I find a Sangha where I can practice using an alternative position?
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Physical issues around sitting

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

NoName wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:43 pm how do I find a Sangha where I can practice using an alternative position?
Just talk to the teacher or group leader. I mean every group I’ve practiced with an every teacher I’ve had has been supportive of using whatever position worked, was best for health, etc.

Laying down may require a conversation or may be beyond what some places might tolerate in a public session, but I think it would be somewhat unusual for people to complain about the one leg up posture or any similar adjustment. Only issue I can foresee is that in most Tibetan centers you don’t want feet pointing at the altar.

So it’s more about communication than finding a specific sangha.
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haha
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Re: Physical issues around sitting

Post by haha »

NoName wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:30 pm Are there any recommendations for particular poses that I should try out?
It depends on what types of meditation practice one is doing and for what purpose. Generally, sitting in chair might help. But if one is doing intense concentration and one is so focused that one suspends the outer experience. In that case, it may create problem of failing to the ground while sitting in the chair. Sitting in the chair could not be the solution for various kinds of meditation even though it helps to straight our back and relax our leg.
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Aemilius
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Re: Physical issues around sitting

Post by Aemilius »

SilenceMonkey wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:12 am I know of some Theravada and Zen teachers that have taught to stand while meditating, as a strategy suited to an individual person. In my experience, you can cultivate a lot of mindfulness in the standing posture.

The four traditional postures for meditating are walking, standing, sitting and lying down.
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:08 pm The most important thing is for the mind to sit.
:thumbsup:
Some Zen teachers teach a meditation for running (at a steady speech). If you try meditating lying down, lying on your right or left side is a preferred posture. There are instructions concerning the position of hands and the gaze (when lying on your side). When lying on your back it is difficult to keep your eyes open and thus you will fall asleep easily and automatically. If you still try to do it on your back, one instruction is to raise your knees. Then when you are about to fall asleep, your feet will move and this will wake you up (hopefully).
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Inedible
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Re: Physical issues around sitting

Post by Inedible »

Maybe it would be best to discuss this with your doctor. You don't have to say why you want to sit in a chair, just that you are having trouble with ordinary daily activities like sitting. It doesn't seem like the kind of thing that is going to get better on it's own.
avatamsaka3
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Re: Physical issues around sitting

Post by avatamsaka3 »

but I have a physical issue with a varicose vain that makes sitting still not particularly safe for me.
Then don't do whatever might harm you. As was suggested, seek proper medical care for the issue first.

It looks like you're coming from Soto Zen. Do you have any mentors from that tradition you can talk to about this? Or any senior students you don't know but might trust? This tradition emphasizes rigid formality in practice, which can be an obstacle.

You might want to ask: Why am I drawn to meditation? And what do I expect of a Buddhist community? If you ponder these, it can help guide you.
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Re: Physical issues around sitting

Post by conebeckham »

I had a DVT several years ago, and now don’t sit in half lotus or cross-legged for any length of time-I do a bit of « clearing breath » and a few other asanas but the majority of my daily recitations and meditation are done in a chair.

My center has always accommodated my needs with regard to seating. Most Dharma centers I’ve visited accommodate people with various seating needs.
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nyonchung
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Re: Physical issues around sitting

Post by nyonchung »

NoName wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:30 pm Hi,

I don't know if this is right to put here, but I have a physical issue with a varicose vain that makes sitting still not particularly safe for me. It is annoyingly placed under the knee, so any position where the knee is bent, including chair meditation can potentially exacerbate it. I can sometimes sit with my leg stretched, or further out, or in a keeling sit with legs spread wider, but it is not ideal.

Are there any traditions where the sitting practice is not necessary, or where I can sit in a variation of a pose/change it up in a while? Are there any recommendations for particular poses that I should try out?
Thank you
The only person who can give you sound advice is a qualified meditation master in a tradition you're related to ...

The recitation of manis can be done walking, a few traditions have walking meditation
Whatever phyisical difficulties arise, the pratice of tonglen (taking suffering and giving hapiness with the breath) is useful, and it can be done in the lying position (this is usually done at sleeping time).
See "The Great Path of Awakening, A Commentary on the Mahayana Teaching of the Seven Points of Mind Training", by Lodrö Thayé Karma Ngagwang Yönten Gyatso (1813-1899), Translated by Ken Mac Leod, Shambhala 1987
This is a relatively modern kagyü commentary, but the Seven Points (as arranged by Potowa) are to be found in almost all traditions, so it must be easy to receive.

Take care of yourself


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