Crazywisdom wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 4:19 pm
Malcolm wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 4:18 pm
Crazywisdom wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:01 pm
Abandon what? Vajrayana doesn't abandon anything.
We are not really discussing Vajrayāna here, but rather, common Mahāyāna. But even in Vajrayāna, one still abandons the two obscurations.
Also a gloss. They are seen as prajna
Not a gloss. The two obscurations are something to be purified in Vajrayāna. That does not mean they substantially exist. For example, Śākyamitra's Mahāmudrāyogāvatārapiṇḍārtha
it states, "After migrating beings complete the accumulation of merit, they completely abandon the great mass of the two obscurations." Or Ratnarakṣita's commentary on the Laghusamvara, which states, "Gradually abandoning the two obscurations and accomplishing mahamudra to serve all migrating beings is the stated purpose."་ Even Tilopa states in his Mahāmudropadeśa
For example, though darkness accumulates for a thousand eons,
the mass of darkness is dispelled by a single lamp;
likewise, a moment of the luminosity of one's mind
will dispel all misdeeds and obscurations gathered for an eon.
So, while one can certainly argue over method, one cannot argue that in order to attain buddhahood, one must abandon or remove the two obscurations.
Naropa, in his Sekkodeṣa
commentary on the empowerments of Kālacakra, also discusses the need to abandon the two obscurations. In fact, he discusses four obscurations there, the usual two, plus obscurations of māra and samapatti.
Frankly, you are just not going to find Indian masters who negate the necessity of abandoning the two obscurations and gathering the two accumulations. Even in the Dzogchen tradition, this is necessary, as Khenpo Ngachung points out. The means may be different but the necessity is still there.