How Mentally Ill Prisoners are Treated in the United States

Discuss the application of the Dharma to situations of social, political, environmental and economic suffering and injustice.
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: How Mentally Ill Prisoners are Treated in the United States

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Matt J wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 7:06 pm When you say intoxicated, are you including alcohol? Because JD claim was that decriminalizing drugs would empty out the prisons. In this case, AFAIK, alcohol is legal in the U.S. presuming you are over 21.

Again, I'm not saying there is no problem, my claim is there is no easy, one-trick solution.
Malcolm wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:12 pm And rightly so, a significant majority of people (I can find a stat, but not right now) in American prisons who are incarcerated for non-drug related offenses were intoxicated when the offense was committed.
The "a better way" example here would be treatment vs. jail time for DUI or alcohol related DV or simple assault, etc. charges.

To be fair, that's now a possibility many places that I know of. Still, the strata of what's possible for people in this regard often changes with money.
Again, I'm not saying there is no problem, my claim is there is no easy, one-trick solution.
You can drop this now. I said something in the heat of the moment on a subject that I'm Impassioned about. I don't actually believe all of our problems would be magically solved by decriminalization and treatment (though I think it would help a lot, and I think the War on Drugs has played a big part in culture of incarceration). You can stop repeating this mantra, I think it's pretty much self-evident.

Decriminalization and setting up more treatment courts, mental health courts, more funding etc. is hardly "one trick" anyway, it would be a huge systemic change even by itself.
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: How Mentally Ill Prisoners are Treated in the United States

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. And as for them not being serious offenses--- if you're suggesting that violence to one's spouse or children should not be regulated by the Government, you're certainly not going to win me over. You should go spent some time at a women's shelter and talk to victims of domestic violence.
Ok dude, you are continuing to put words in my mouth, and in particular I do not appreciate you acting like I am somehow ignoring violence against women. I also have family that are rape and abuse victims you can put the kibosh on that stuff right here and now, thanks.

What I was saying is that lots of people get multiple things like DV and simple assault charges who are not predators or abusers..but are impoverished, may have a substance abuse issues related to the incident, or both. Of course people need to be prosecuted for DV and abuse victims need to be protected, that goes without saying.

In the state I live in it is quite possible to wrack up multiple DV charges that mean possible jail time, and definitely long term probation and court fees, without any actual abuse taking place. just two people getting in a screaming fight and throwing something at a wall arguing with a spouse, or getting in a shoving match with your brother is enough. These kinds of cases tend to be poor people. Certainly some kind of intervention is needed, but it's debatable whether the interventions that come through the criminal justice system in cases like these have a net benefit at all.

Is DV serious and the cause of huge suffering? Yes of course, and I don't know how on earth I need to explain to you that I think that is the case in order to make a pretty simple critique of the justice system.

The good scenario is they get some DV treatment (varies hugely in quality here) and learn some anger management skills, with minimal jail time. Judging from some of the population I and my loved one have seen though, for some people this is their "intro" to years worth of involvement in the justice system, up to and including some incarceration. To be fair, where I live they do a pretty good job of being proportional in terms of sentencing from what I see...but I'll bet that is not true everywhere, and I can imagine where I grew up in New Mexico for example, these systemic problems are simply magnified.

It irks me enough that you twisted my words about DV that this is going to be my last participation in the conversation, assuming my words were
suggesting that violence to one's spouse or children should not be regulated by the Government, you're certainly not going to win me over.
I just beyond the pale, and we clearly have some communication issues. I suspect you know I was not saying that I think there should be no such thing as DV, and I'm not sure why you decided to imply that.
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

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Matt J
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Re: How Mentally Ill Prisoners are Treated in the United States

Post by Matt J »

You said:
DV is a good example of a charge that often just means someone is poor and has substance abuse issues and impulse control issues.
I don't know why you're getting so spun up, TBH.
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:04 pm It irks me enough that you twisted my words about DV that this is going to be my last participation in the conversation, assuming my words were
suggesting that violence to one's spouse or children should not be regulated by the Government, you're certainly not going to win me over.
I just beyond the pale, and we clearly have some communication issues. I suspect you know I was not saying that I think there should be no such thing as DV, and I'm not sure why you decided to imply that.
"The essence of meditation practice is to let go of all your expectations about meditation. All the qualities of your natural mind -- peace, openness, relaxation, and clarity -- are present in your mind just as it is. You don't have to do anything different. You don't have to shift or change your awareness. All you have to do while observing your mind is to recognize the qualities it already has."
--- Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche
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Re: How Mentally Ill Prisoners are Treated in the United States

Post by Virgo »

We need to move towards rehabilitation and away from a strictly punitive standpoint.

Virgo
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