any word on new Avatamsaka Sutra translation?

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Leo Rivers
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any word on new Avatamsaka Sutra translation?

Post by Leo Rivers »

Dharmamitra has devoted his energies primarily to study and translation of classic Mahāyāna texts with a special interest in works by Ārya Nāgārjuna and related authors. To date, he has translated more than fifteen important texts comprising approximately 150 fascicles, including most recently the 80-fascicle Avataṃsaka Sūtra (the "Flower Adornment Sutra"),
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Zhen Li
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Re: any word on new Avatamsaka Sutra translation?

Post by Zhen Li »

I think it’s a poor choice of wording. He has translated from the Avatamsaka.
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Re: any word on new Avatamsaka Sutra translation?

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No.... I was under the imptession that both Kalavinka and BDK are translating the entire Buddhavantamsaka Sutra... but I could be mistaken.

I have the Dasabhumika and he has done an amazing job of presenting both versions. :buddha1:
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Re: any word on new Avatamsaka Sutra translation?

Post by Zhen Li »

I don't know about Kalavinka, but is on BDK's "First Series" list. I haven't heard if anyone has started it though.

Personally, since it has been translated already, I would be more interested in seeing some effort go towards translating the Mahāsaṃnipāta or something that has not received as much attention in English so far.
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Re: any word on new Avatamsaka Sutra translation?

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The Avatamsaka Sutra was really hard to finish reading. I couldn't really understand what I was getting from it. Even the long Perfection of Wisdom Sutra was easier to stick with, even if I did decide that I'd much rather repeat the Diamond Cuttter and Heart Sutras. Was there anything in particular that people here got from reading it? Main ideas, themes, inspirations?
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Re: any word on new Avatamsaka Sutra translation?

Post by Leo Rivers »

Great idea Zhen Li ! :cheers: I am very interested in "the decline of the Dharma".

by Zhen Li » Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:04 pm
The Mahāsaṃnipāta Sutra (Chinese: 大集經, pinyin: Dà Jí Jīng, Japanese: Daijuku-kyō or Daishik-kyō) is anthology of Mahayana Buddhist sutras. The meaning in English is the Sutra of the Great Assembly. The sutra was translated into Chinese by Dharmakṣema, beginning in the year 414. The anthology consists of 17 sutras across 60 fascicles, but the only extant copy of the entire collection is found in Chinese, though individual sutras can be found in Sanskrit and Tibetan.[1] Sutra number 15 in the collection is particularly influential because it enumerates the notion of the decline of the Dharma, or decline of the Buddha's teachings, dividing this into three eras, subdivided by 5 five-hundred periods of time:[2]
see: NATTIER, Jan. Once Upon a Future Time - Studies in Buddhist Prophecies of Decline. Asian Humanities Press, 1991.
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https://www.amazon.com/Once-upon-Future ... oks&sr=1-1
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Re: any word on new Avatamsaka Sutra translation?

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Inedible wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:35 pm The Avatamsaka Sutra was really hard to finish reading. I couldn't really understand what I was getting from it. Even the long Perfection of Wisdom Sutra was easier to stick with, even if I did decide that I'd much rather repeat the Diamond Cuttter and Heart Sutras. Was there anything in particular that people here got from reading it? Main ideas, themes, inspirations?
That's a really good comment and probably reflects many people's impressions of the sutra.

It is very hard to make sense of because of its size. It doesn't help that commentaries focus on specific words, and tend not to give us a larger picture.

I have two websites on important sutras from the collection, which may help, serve as introductions, or reading aids:
https://sites.google.com/site/learningt ... agessutra/
https://sites.google.com/view/learningt ... yuhasutra/

There are some others sites out there that I can't find at the moment, but this may help with giving a larger overview of the collection:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160313001 ... ra%20.html

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Re: any word on new Avatamsaka Sutra translation?

Post by Leo Rivers »

Thank you so much for these...
I have two websites on important sutras from the collection, which may help, serve as introductions, or reading aids:
https://sites.google.com/site/learningt ... agessutra/
The Entry into Reality textbook on the Gaṇḍavyūha Sutra aka The Excellent Manifestation Sūtra
https://www.amazon.com/Entry-Into-Realm ... 0877734844 4 Used from $70.10 Image

isn't easy. [YMMV]... but in that a lot of you guys actually read Sanskrit and/or Chinese and are experienced practitioners, my opinion is just and opinion. Añjali_Mudrā :anjali:
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Re: any word on new Avatamsaka Sutra translation?

Post by Inedible »

Zhen Li wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:39 am and probably reflects many people's impressions of the sutra.
Thanks for helping to understand it better. Some day I plan to try it again. Many years from now.
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Re: any word on new Avatamsaka Sutra translation?

Post by Zhen Li »

Just looking over the Gaṇḍavyūha site again, I think you can check the last page "Review of the Entire Sūtra" to get an overview.

There's an overall frame: that Buddha-nature/Dharmakāya spans the universe, and all dharmas therein interpenetrate, it is personified in the form of Vairocana Tathāgata.

The rest of the Gaṇḍavyūha, in a way, is a summary of the entire Avataṃsaka. The whole point is the bodhisattva path. The grades of stages and practices that the bodhisattva must go through in order to attain buddhahood.

The Ten Stages Sūtra (Daśabhūmika) is worth looking at as it gives a deeper dive into the stages. I am not a huge fan of the way Cleary presents it and I don't think 84000 improves on it at all. The main issue is that there's a lot going on and the editing doesn't signpost it at all. I haven't looked at the Kalavinka versions, but I suspect they are the best way to approach it.

Nāgārjuna's commentary on the ten stages is a classic and also foundational to the Pure Land sects: it is there that the distinction between the path of easy practise and the path of the sages is first explained.

I think the biggest takeaway from the Avataṃsakasūtra as a whole, for me, is how impossible the path is and how incredible the devotion and practice required must be. It makes me quite firm in my understanding that we must depend upon Amitābha Buddha's 18th Vow in order to attain awakening.
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Re: any word on new Avatamsaka Sutra translation?

Post by Inedible »

Imagine a vast building with lots of businesses in it, like an enormous shopping mall. It is on fire. It is crowded and not everyone even knows the danger. You have professional firefighters on the scene who are trying to fight the fire and coordinate a rescue so that everyone gets out. However, some of the people realize that they are in danger and they find an exit. Why are those people the bad guys? Why don't the firefighters tell them that they did the right thing to leave the building since that is what they want for everyone in there? And after everyone is out, will the people who insisted on being saved last still have a superior status?
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Re: any word on new Avatamsaka Sutra translation?

Post by Zhen Li »

That's a good point and it is how I see the matter for myself.

On the other hand, everyone is born with different karma and causes and conditions. If you tell everyone the same message, they will all hear as many different messages as there are people. Their mind projects the message most suited to it at the time. It is as if there is an exit nearby, but some people, when hearing the message about taking that exit, will misunderstand and think that they are supposed to stay or go somewhere else.

I look at it like this: Buddhahood or bust. There's no point in messing around aimlessly. We need to have a clear goal and take the most direct and effective path to achieve it.
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