The Heart Sutra…sufficient for Enlightenment?

Discuss and learn about the traditional Mahayana scriptures, without assuming that any one school ‘owns’ the only correct interpretation.
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Heimdall
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The Heart Sutra…sufficient for Enlightenment?

Post by Heimdall »

I attended a Zen Center a while back that combined both Pureland Buddhism and Chan / Zen Buddhism, and the Abbot made the claim that the Heart Sutra is technically all that is needed for Enlightenment.

Is this true?
narhwal90
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Re: The Heart Sutra…sufficient for Enlightenment?

Post by narhwal90 »

Don't know- if you're interested it might be best to try it and see.
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: The Heart Sutra…sufficient for Enlightenment?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Just depends on the point of view, but I would give a qualified yes, it is the heart of the Perfection of Wisdom after all it is an amazing teaching and one is quite fortunate to have any exposure to the Mahayana, in my opinion.

Beyond that you just get into (usually triumphalist) comparisons.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
Malcolm
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Re: The Heart Sutra…sufficient for Enlightenment?

Post by Malcolm »

Heimdall wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:00 am I attended a Zen Center a while back that combined both Pureland Buddhism and Chan / Zen Buddhism, and the Abbot made the claim that the Heart Sutra is technically all that is needed for Enlightenment.

Is this true?
Yes, provided you are willing to work for three incalculable eons towards Buddhahood. There is no path in the Heart Sutra, it even says so.
reiun
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Re: The Heart Sutra…sufficient for Enlightenment?

Post by reiun »

Heimdall wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:00 am I attended a Zen Center a while back that combined both Pureland Buddhism and Chan / Zen Buddhism, and the Abbot made the claim that the Heart Sutra is technically all that is needed for Enlightenment.

Is this true?
No. Seeing into your True Nature comes first before you "get" the Heart Sutra.
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FiveSkandhas
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Re: The Heart Sutra…sufficient for Enlightenment?

Post by FiveSkandhas »

There are 84,000 Dharma doors; many paths to liberation. Master Dogen writes of a man achieving awakening by hearing a pebble rattle against a bamboo pole one day. In the Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva Fundamental Vow Sutra, Shakyamuni Buddha states:
... I also have manifested trillions of emanations to provide extensive expedient means [for...deliverance and liberation]...I manifested in the forms of men, women, eight classes of supernatural beings, mountains, rivers, plains, streams, ponds, springs or wells. These forms were the ones that would have benefited those being rescued the most facilitating their deliverance and liberation...
If a being's liberation can be fostered by an emanation of Shakyamuni in the form of a pond, I see no reason why liberation cannot, at least in theory, be fostered through engagement with the sublime and masterful Heart Sutra.
"One should cultivate contemplation in one’s foibles. The foibles are like fish, and contemplation is like fishing hooks. If there are no fish, then the fishing hooks have no use. The bigger the fish is, the better the result we will get. As long as the fishing hooks keep at it, all foibles will eventually be contained and controlled at will." -Zhiyi

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reiun
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Re: The Heart Sutra…sufficient for Enlightenment?

Post by reiun »

:alien:
FiveSkandhas wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 1:47 am If a being's liberation can be fostered by an emanation of Shakyamuni in the form of a pond, I see no reason why liberation cannot, at least in theory, be fostered through engagement with the sublime and masterful Heart Sutra.
"Fostering" is a good word for the process of nurturing or developing understanding. But that is an intellectual matter, and has nothing to do with samadhi or kensho.
Last edited by reiun on Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Virgo
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Re: The Heart Sutra…sufficient for Enlightenment?

Post by Virgo »

reiun wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 3:37 am "Foster" is a good word
It's Australian for beer.

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Inedible
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Re: The Heart Sutra…sufficient for Enlightenment?

Post by Inedible »

Heimdall wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:00 am Is this true?
Venerable Shariputra became a Stream Enterer on hearing two lines of text. He passed them on to his friend who also became a Stream Enterer. I can't spell the name. They became the two Chief Disciples. Yes, I do believe it is possible for a person to attain Enlightenment with just this one Sutra. A person has to be ready for it, however. If you've read the Sutra and it hasn't rocked your world, you should keep going.
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Re: The Heart Sutra…sufficient for Enlightenment?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

FiveSkandhas wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 1:47 am There are 84,000 Dharma doors; many paths to liberation. Master Dogen writes of a man achieving awakening by hearing a pebble rattle against a bamboo pole one day. In the Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva Fundamental Vow Sutra, Shakyamuni Buddha states:
... I also have manifested trillions of emanations to provide extensive expedient means [for...deliverance and liberation]...I manifested in the forms of men, women, eight classes of supernatural beings, mountains, rivers, plains, streams, ponds, springs or wells. These forms were the ones that would have benefited those being rescued the most facilitating their deliverance and liberation...
If a being's liberation can be fostered by an emanation of Shakyamuni in the form of a pond, I see no reason why liberation cannot, at least in theory, be fostered through engagement with the sublime and masterful Heart Sutra.
True, but the Heart Sutra alone? As if it were a person’s very first introduction to the Dharma?

I think that’s the question (hence the term, ‘sufficient’).

Hearing it might cause some light to go on, but a full awakening, as in “enlightenment” is very unlikely.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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