How to find the 25,000 lines and 8,000 lines of Prajnaparamita

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Padmist
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How to find the 25,000 lines and 8,000 lines of Prajnaparamita

Post by Padmist »

Is there one place / page where I could find this?

Is this available as a separate book?

Is this on 84000 site?
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Svalaksana
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Re: How to find the 25,000 lines and 8,000 lines of Prajnaparamita

Post by Svalaksana »

To my knowledge, Edward Conze translated both versions several decades ago, however these translations, albeit their undeniable value especially in historical terms, supposedly aren't entirely up to the faithful standard currently held.
Looking but not seeing - that's my eye.
Thinking but not minding - that's my mind.
Speaking but not expressing - that's my tongue.
Traveling but not going - that's my path.
Arnoud
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Re: How to find the 25,000 lines and 8,000 lines of Prajnaparamita

Post by Arnoud »

8000 Lines:
https://smile.amazon.com/Perfection-Wis ... 802&sr=8-4

10000 Lines:
https://read.84000.co/translation/toh11.html

Karl Brunnholz also translated several versions.

Hope that helps.
zerwe
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Re: How to find the 25,000 lines and 8,000 lines of Prajnaparamita

Post by zerwe »

You should be able to find a hard copy in most reputable university libraries.
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Zhen Li
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Re: How to find the 25,000 lines and 8,000 lines of Prajnaparamita

Post by Zhen Li »

Svalaksana wrote: Sun Jan 31, 2021 2:34 pmTo my knowledge, Edward Conze translated both versions several decades ago, however these translations, albeit their undeniable value especially in historical terms, supposedly aren't entirely up to the faithful standard currently held.
They are dated but largely fine. I translated about half of the Aṣṭasāhasrikā myself and found that there was little meaning in continuing since Conze's catches the meaning for most readers.

Two things to be aware of with Conze's translations are that he will skip or abbreviate sections without any note, you may notice this if you pay attention to the page numbers in brackets which correspond to Mitra's Sanskrit edition. Another is that he has minimal notes. So readers would be best to either be very familiar with Buddhism before reading, or be prepared to look up a lot of terms. Nonetheless, a more userfriendly translation would be nice to have one day.

Otherwise, in terms of terminology, it is not too different from what we would use today. See, also, his dictionary of the Prajñāpāramitā, which also helps with going through the Sanskrit:
http://lirs.ru/lib/conze/Materials_for_ ... 600dpi.pdf

Here's the 8,000 line version:
https://huntingtonarchive.org/resources ... asrika.pdf

Here's the 25,000 line version:
http://lirs.ru/lib/conze/The_Large_Sutr ... e,1975.pdf
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FiveSkandhas
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Re: How to find the 25,000 lines and 8,000 lines of Prajnaparamita

Post by FiveSkandhas »

Prajnaparamita Sutra in a Single Letter. Translated by Edward Conze

https://www.himalayanart.org/search/set.cfm?setID=4483
"One should cultivate contemplation in one’s foibles. The foibles are like fish, and contemplation is like fishing hooks. If there are no fish, then the fishing hooks have no use. The bigger the fish is, the better the result we will get. As long as the fishing hooks keep at it, all foibles will eventually be contained and controlled at will." -Zhiyi

"Just be kind." -Atisha
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Aemilius
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Re: How to find the 25,000 lines and 8,000 lines of Prajnaparamita

Post by Aemilius »

Zhen Li wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:33 am
Svalaksana wrote: Sun Jan 31, 2021 2:34 pmTo my knowledge, Edward Conze translated both versions several decades ago, however these translations, albeit their undeniable value especially in historical terms, supposedly aren't entirely up to the faithful standard currently held.
They are dated but largely fine. I translated about half of the Aṣṭasāhasrikā myself and found that there was little meaning in continuing since Conze's catches the meaning for most readers.

Two things to be aware of with Conze's translations are that he will skip or abbreviate sections without any note, you may notice this if you pay attention to the page numbers in brackets which correspond to Mitra's Sanskrit edition. Another is that he has minimal notes. So readers would be best to either be very familiar with Buddhism before reading, or be prepared to look up a lot of terms. Nonetheless, a more userfriendly translation would be nice to have one day.

Otherwise, in terms of terminology, it is not too different from what we would use today. See, also, his dictionary of the Prajñāpāramitā, which also helps with going through the Sanskrit:
http://lirs.ru/lib/conze/Materials_for_ ... 600dpi.pdf

Here's the 8,000 line version:
https://huntingtonarchive.org/resources ... asrika.pdf

Here's the 25,000 line version:
http://lirs.ru/lib/conze/The_Large_Sutr ... e,1975.pdf
Conze's Large Sutra is a mixture translation of the 100 000 Lines and other Perfection Wisdom sutras. A modern scholar, whose name I can't remember, has at the back of his book the information that Conze's 25 000 Lines Perfection Wisdom translation exists as an unpublished manuscript held in some private or semi-private library in Netherlands.


Conze writes in Large Sutra: "The translation of pages 37 to 430 (abhisamayas I-IV) normally follows the version in 25,000 lines which has been adjusted to conform to thedivisions of the Abhisamayālañkāra.1 In some passages of chapters 1-21 I have, however, translated the version in 100,000 lines, or adopted readings of the version in 18,000 lines, and of those various Chinese translations which seemed to represent an older or more intelligible text. For chapters 22-54 also I have generally followed the revised Pañcavim-śatisāhasrika. But portions of the original, unadjusted version in 25,000 lines, as well as the version in 18,000 lines, which are preserved inGilgit and Central Asian manuscripts of the sixth or seventh centuries,are the basis of pages 229-239 (P), 339-362 (>), 363-367 (Ad) and 369-395 (Ad) of this translation, and I have followed them in those passageswhich occur in Ms. Stein Ch. 0079a, although I have noted all the variants of P insofar as they affect the divisions of the AA."
"Pages 431-643 (abhisamayas V to VIII, chapters 55-82) translate the Gilgit manuscript of the version in 18,000 lines, "
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
Joe123
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Re: How to find the 25,000 lines and 8,000 lines of Prajnaparamita

Post by Joe123 »

Hey all,

I'm new to the boards and just seeing this. You may already have heard that 84000 has published the 18,000 line version here in June 2022: https://read.84000.co/translation/toh10.html . I believe it is the first complete translation of any of the Large Prajñaparamita-s into English, apart from Conze's edition.

Also, if I recall correctly, according to John Canti, 84000 is working on the line 25,000 line version and it should be completed soon. This was mentioned during a great interview here:


Be well

with metta...
Last edited by Joe123 on Wed Jul 13, 2022 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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