Comparison between the descriptions of Anatta and Upaya of the Lotus and Diamond Sutras.

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Budai
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Comparison between the descriptions of Anatta and Upaya of the Lotus and Diamond Sutras.

Post by Budai »

I have a question between the similarities in the Buddhist theme of Anatta being used in Upaya and the direct Nirvanic and Buddhic flow by which the Buddha Himself experiences (and does not experience) His life. In the Diamond Sutra there is the recurring theme that Buddhas and Bodhisattvas don't have non-Anattic thoughts, and do not abide outside of Anatta. That is a perfect perception of a Bodhisattva or a Buddha to me. Here is what the Diamond Sutra says, for example:
The Buddha said to Subhūti: “The bodhisattvas and mahāsattvas should subdue their thoughts like this: All the different types of sentient beings, whether they be born from eggs, born from a womb, born from moisture or born spontaneously; whether or not they have form; whether they abide in perceptions or no perceptions; or without either perceptions or non-perceptions, I save them by causing them to enter nirvana without remainder. And when these immeasurable, countless, infinite number of sentient beings have been liberated, in actuality, no sentient being has attained liberation. Why is this so? Subhūti, If a bodhisattva abides in the signs of self, person, sentient being, or life-span, she or he is not a bodhisattva.”
The Diamond Sutra, 3. The Bodhisattva's Vow.


Yet here in the Lotus Sutra, the Buddha is speaking in terms of Life-Span, in and in terms of saving sentient beings. Is this to be regarded as Upaya? For those that have taken the Bodhisattva Vows, and know their compassion as Bodhisattvas, is this type of thinking considered Upaya and once selfless service begins and one enters into Anatta, what the Diamond Sutra mentions as the process of consciousness (and not-consciousness), the blowing out of the process of blowing out considered to be the true connection and full aspect of Buddha-Nature, while Upaya is the Means? This is my question. Any form of answer would be appreciated. Thank you!
"Thus, since I attained Buddhahood, an extremely long period of time has passed. My life span is an immeasurable number of asamkhya kalpas, and during that time I have constantly abided here without ever entering extinction. Good men, originally I practiced the bodhisattva way, and the life span that I acquired then has yet to come to an end but will last twice the number of years that have already passed. Now, however, although in fact I do not actually enter extinction, I announce that I am going to adopt the course of extinction. This is an expedient means which the Thus Come One uses to teach and convert living beings.

....

....

Always I am aware of which living beings
practice the way, and which do not,
and in response to their needs for salvation
I preach various doctrines for them.
At all times I think to myself:
How can I cause living beings
to gain entry into the unsurpassed way
and quickly acquire the body of a Buddha?
-The Lotus Sutra, Chapter 16, The Life Span of the Thus Come One

Om.

:anjali:
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Re: Comparison between the descriptions of Anatta and Upaya of the Lotus and Diamond Sutras.

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

the view talked about in the Diamond Sutra is the view of the Prajnaparamita, Shunyata. It is not the same as the Anatta of Hinayana, nor the notion of Nirvana within the Hinayana framework. Sometimes Nirvana is distinguished as "non abiding Nirvana" within the Mahayana, to make this contrast.

From the Mahayana perspective Nirvana (extinction of the kleshas) attained by an Arhat is a provisional goal where there are still subtle obscurations, whereas complete Buddhahood -Samyaksambodhi is the final goal, and one which transcends both samsara and nirvana.

As to the Lotus Sutra, no idea. You can't just quickly compare sutras side by side following the literal wording and expect anything coherent, In my experience. The Mahayana Canon is vast and individual sutra require vast study to get even a glimpse of the profound meaning, for most of us. Just comparing some text real quick is not adequate to answer questions like this, nor are quick quips over the internet from other practitioners sufficient to resolve doubts over things like this.

84000 doors and all that, and there will always be things that don't resonate or seem contradictory, the thing is not to make those a practice.

Interest in the Diamond Sutra is awesome, but think you are missing the overall context of the Diamond Sutra by just picking out some chunks, and should look up a reputable commentary on it if you want to study it in detail.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
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Re: Comparison between the descriptions of Anatta and Upaya of the Lotus and Diamond Sutras.

Post by Budai »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:07 am Interest in the Diamond Sutra is awesome, but think you are missing the overall context of the Diamond Sutra by just picking out some chunks, and should look up a reputable commentary on it if you want to study it in detail.
Do you have any recommendations? I am interested in getting this one by Thich Nhat Hanh (scroll down for actual information about the book if interested). I feel like I have a good grasp of the Lotus Sutra, and I find some paralells, but the deep Nirvana that the Lotus Sutra paralells with the Diamond Sutra is what I'm interested in. :namaste:
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