1000 to 1500 Chinese spies might be at Bodhgaya Kalacakra

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phantom59
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1000 to 1500 Chinese spies might be at Bodhgaya Kalacakra

Post by phantom59 »

With thousands of Tibetans having crossed the Himalayan borders of Nepal and China to attend the Kalchakra teachings at Bodhgya, the Central Tibetan Administration (CTA) has expressed worries over the possibility Chinese spies entering India.

Sources in the Tibetan administration said that security at the Dalai Lama temple has been increased, and some Tibetans were deployed to keep an eye over McLeodganj and its catchment areas.In the meantime, minister for the department of security at CTA Dhonchung Ngodup said while addressing the media: "Chinese spies might have reached Bodhgya. They could be 1,000 to 1,500 in numbers."

He said around 70,000 Tibetans have arrived in India to attend the 10-day teachings that began from January 1. Recent reports from Tibet have indicated that the number of Chinese spies in monasteries of Tibet have greatly increased following the spate of self-immolations

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 346725.cms" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: 1000 to 1500 Chinese spies might be at Bodhgaya Kalacakra

Post by pemachophel »

There was a veritable flood of FOB Tibetans in Boudha back in early December, all on their way to the Kalachakra wang. They were packed 10 to a room in all the guesthouses. Busloads were leaving every evening Bodhgaya. The FOB Tibetans were very easy to recognize because of their traditional Tibetan dress, jewelry, hats, etc. Also their body language and gait was different from the Tibetan exiles. Locals in Boudha said that there were lots of Chinese spies among these pilgrims and many rumors were floating around. There was also heightened police/military presence in Boudha. A number of these pilgrims came to our acupuncture clinic at the Shechen Clinic. Many of them spoke Chinese, which made my job easier since my Chinese is better than my Tibetan. Doing kora every day with these newcomers was also very interesting, as was watching them buying stuff in the shops around the Great Stupa. It was a very interesting time to be in Boudha.
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maybay
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Re: 1000 to 1500 Chinese spies might be at Bodhgaya Kalacakra

Post by maybay »

Didn't Holiness say you should spy on the guru?
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ronnewmexico
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Re: 1000 to 1500 Chinese spies might be at Bodhgaya Kalacakra

Post by ronnewmexico »

Peoples ideas of Tibet are unfortunately lost in the past....as in about half a century ago.
There has been massive migration of han into Tibet for the better part of 50 years till now the majority in Tibet is Han.

Why do people migrate...ideologs will tell you it is due to ideology freedom things of that sort.
Why do people really migrate.....usually economic...to get jobs money to eat things of that sort.

So now the Chinese economy is in a very difficult period, as due to inflationary concerns the central government has raised the interest rates and caused a bit of a recession to occur. Chinas GDP is still growing but not close to a pace earlier.

So we have migration due to economic difficulty to india from Tibet but not of native tibetans but Han that have lived their for their whole lives, and are thusly part chinese and part Tibetan.

Are these spies....I'd guess not.
China suddently finds it necessary to send thousands of spies into Tibet due to self immolulations of a couple of dozen people.....If that makes sense to you I guess it is your truth to that thing.
I would say you don't quite know how big China is...... but have at it if that is your inclination.

Immigration from Mexico into the US is per example at a ten or so year low....why?....recession in america there is not the impetus to migrate.
The Han will adapt buddhism eventually. It is to be expected. Those in the tibetan areas will be first.

Victory of a sort is coming to Tibet but not through force of arms or reconquest self immoluation or eventually suicide for purpose...it is through the force of superior ways of looking at things....which eventually always wins the day over its opposition..Smashing and throwing the old ways asunder.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Grigoris
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Re: 1000 to 1500 Chinese spies might be at Bodhgaya Kalacakra

Post by Grigoris »

What incredibly good karma those spies must have to be present at a ten day teaching on the Kalachakra!
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ronnewmexico
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Re: 1000 to 1500 Chinese spies might be at Bodhgaya Kalacakra

Post by ronnewmexico »

Tibetans are clearly winning the day.....

Han becoming
Tibetan buddhists....who woulda thought....few seemingly. Few indeed.

Fact it seemingly be nevertheless....tibetan buddhism recognizing no boundry nor ethenticity.
Water cannot be stamped out. It will persist.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Grigoris
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Re: 1000 to 1500 Chinese spies might be at Bodhgaya Kalacakra

Post by Grigoris »

ronnewmexico wrote:Han becoming
Tibetan buddhists....who woulda thought....few seemingly. Few indeed.
Actually the Han have been practicing Tibetan Vajrayana for quite some time. For example the Yonghe Lamasery in Beijing was established in 1744 by the Emporer Jialong as a shedra for Gelugpa lamas.
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"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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ronnewmexico
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Re: 1000 to 1500 Chinese spies might be at Bodhgaya Kalacakra

Post by ronnewmexico »

No kidding!!

Well then everyone knew this. Or at least quite a few knew this.
Or mayby just a few knew this.
Or maybe just you knew this.

In any event...kudos and congratulations :smile:

Actually...that is.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Grigoris
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Re: 1000 to 1500 Chinese spies might be at Bodhgaya Kalacakra

Post by Grigoris »

Just happened to visit the place "by mistake" when I was travelling around China in 1995. My girlfriend also happened to go there "by mistake" and bring me back a souvenir with the info. I didn't even know I was in a Tibetan shedra, I just remember the huge statue carved out of a single sandalwood tree log. Just now I learnt that it was Maitreya.
maitreya.jpg
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"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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kirtu
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Re: 1000 to 1500 Chinese spies might be at Bodhgaya Kalacakra

Post by kirtu »

ronnewmexico wrote:No kidding!!

Well then everyone knew this. Or at least quite a few knew this.
Or mayby just a few knew this.
Or maybe just you knew this.

In any event...kudos and congratulations :smile:

Actually...that is.
Well actually the issue on that side is that the PRC really believed that they had eradicated religion amongst the Han.

So this is a new development for them and for many Tibetans in exile who can see the Han as enemies.

Kirt
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ronnewmexico
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Re: 1000 to 1500 Chinese spies might be at Bodhgaya Kalacakra

Post by ronnewmexico »

Well yes. new though being a bit of perspective.

In a asian context religion has a long history of governmental control and influence. Probably as a result of things such as the chinese Maietryan revolutions.

But since the cultural revolution there has been a sway towards not against religion. Fulon Gong and some exceptions occur but generally they are not strongly against it. Buddhism seeming to them a bit a affirmation of their nationality. China having much buddhist influence in its history.
So it is trending this way. They do make a distinction as to M and T buddhism to my observation favoring greatly M buddhism as a extension of their nationality I suppose.
Tibet is bound to produce han/tibetans that follow tibetan buddhism. Has to occur.
The idea the chinese government is just widely surpressing all religions to my opinion is widely overstated currently.
Controlling certainly..but that is always a asian way of being with religions. Governments in asia control religion, usually that is how it is.

Repression of tibetans can be nationalistic in origin as much as anything. A exit for hans to other areas prevents pressure cookers from developing.
So it is encouraged to migrate to Tibet.
But things go bad there people will legally or not migrate elsewhere. Some not all, Tibet will remain han by majority.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: 1000 to 1500 Chinese spies might be at Bodhgaya Kalacakra

Post by Blue Garuda »

Why would there need to be Chinese spies there?

Certainly not to spy on HHDL as they are quite familiar with him and with Vajrayana, and Kalachakra is hardly secret these days. Nor do they need to 'adapt' as they have apparently been familiar with Buddhism for some time, I'm told.

So maybe to spy on other Chinese? Again unlikely as those Chinese attending would have needed permision anyway.

If they are attending, we are left with the potential motivation to harm to HHDL or demonstrate against him. Maybe they have adopted and encouraged a certain protector practice and have shown up in large numbers to shorten his life - some sources say that they are funding this in monasteries in China - just to poke HHDL in the eye. Again, a bullet would be less effort and he's hardly a difficult target.

So I can't see any plausible purpose and would think it is just a rumour. I'll ask my Guru for his observations when he returns from the event.
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Re: 1000 to 1500 Chinese spies might be at Bodhgaya Kalacakra

Post by Grigoris »

Maybe they were just there to get the empowerment?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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Re: 1000 to 1500 Chinese spies might be at Bodhgaya Kalacakra

Post by ronnewmexico »

My approximation is that with their obvious differences of observational quality peoples are known to be chinese han and thusly assumed to be some type of spy, and not really tibetan buddhists.

Having han convert or adopt tibetan buddhism would remove the motivation in certain circles eyes.... reduceing the issue then to one of solely nationalistic intention and thusly largly irrelevent to most since there are thousands of those type things.
So it certain circles it may become a good thing to have no han be tibetan buddhist adherants. Called spys and such.

That's my take.
I would personally be careful to not confuse religious instruction with political instruction, qualifying one and not qualifying the other...but that is personal opinion.

I would assume yes...they were there strictly to get teachings...it makes the most sense, other things are quite silly, when you think about them.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: 1000 to 1500 Chinese spies might be at Bodhgaya Kalacakra

Post by Blue Garuda »

gregkavarnos wrote:Maybe they were just there to get the empowerment?
If spies then not, but if just 'Chinese' then yes. The OP is about 'spies' so any other motivation means that there are no spies at all.
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Grigoris
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Re: 1000 to 1500 Chinese spies might be at Bodhgaya Kalacakra

Post by Grigoris »

Blue Garuda wrote:
gregkavarnos wrote:Maybe they were just there to get the empowerment?
If spies then not, but if just 'Chinese' then yes. The OP is about 'spies' so any other motivation means that there are no spies at all.
Look, that the government of the PRC would take the opportunity to send spies, there is no doubt. But 1000-1500 spies??? Seems like a bit of an exaggeration.
:namaste:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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Re: 1000 to 1500 Chinese spies might be at Bodhgaya Kalacakra

Post by Blue Garuda »

gregkavarnos wrote:
Blue Garuda wrote:
gregkavarnos wrote:Maybe they were just there to get the empowerment?
If spies then not, but if just 'Chinese' then yes. The OP is about 'spies' so any other motivation means that there are no spies at all.
Look, that the government of the PRC would take the opportunity to send spies, there is no doubt. But 1000-1500 spies??? Seems like a bit of an exaggeration.
:namaste:
For sure. We agree. I an just explaining that a spy would be there to spy so any Chinese turning up with the motivation to receive the empowerment would ipso facto not be spies, as the post suggested that the spies we are discussing may be there with that religious motivation.

It's hardly incognito as you suggest. Far too many cloaks and daggers to supply! :)
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Caz
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Re: 1000 to 1500 Chinese spies might be at Bodhgaya Kalacakra

Post by Caz »

I just hope it doesnt start a panic of Tibetans accusing one and other and then being violent at HH'S teachings..again. :crazy:
Abandoning Dharma is, in the final analysis, disparaging the Hinayana because of the Mahayana; favoring the Hinayana on account of the Mahayana; playing off sutra against tantra; playing off the four classes of the tantras against each other; favoring one of the Tibetan schools—the Sakya, Gelug, Kagyu, or Nyingma—and disparaging the rest; and so on. In other words, we abandon Dharma any time we favor our own tenets and disparage the rest.

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Re: 1000 to 1500 Chinese spies might be at Bodhgaya Kalacakra

Post by plwk »

Han becoming
Tibetan buddhists....who woulda thought....few seemingly. Few indeed.
Actually the Han have been practicing Tibetan Vajrayana for quite some time. For example the Yonghe Lamasery in Beijing was established in 1744 by the Emporer Jialong as a shedra for Gelugpa lamas.
:namaste:
Not forgetting some of the Tang and Yuan Dynasties... :popcorn:
I dunno caz... Times of India is known to be sensational.... not sure about Tibetans in general....
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Re: 1000 to 1500 Chinese spies might be at Bodhgaya Kalacakra

Post by ronnewmexico »

The chinese government does not at the present time have a policy of eradication of religion as in the past.
IN fact the celebrate buddhism as a historical part of china and thusly a affirmation of their claim upon Tibet.
It speaks of the simiiliarity and thusly the validity of the claim.

HHDL....americans and the west only know what is wanted by their governments to know.
Chinese....they know of HHDL's employment by the CIA. The chinese apprehension of government is a sophisticated one.
All government is considered of parts. Some parts more receptive to another nation or group than another.
The CIA is considered a known enemy of china and the chinese government. The most radical right of the american government,intent upon their demise and subjecation...utter dominance of China. And by my take not far off the mark that.
HHDL's association with the CIA prevents any consideration of him other than as adversary. It will remain that way.
He had good reasons for such involvement in a political sense..but it is what it is. They, during that time frame,,were displacing many elected governments with puppet regimes that acted to furthur their personal interests. Usually accompanied with the wholescale torture and imprisonment of large segments of populations....Other countries know of the US more than US peoples do. Much more.


This however is not necessarily their view of buddhism as a whole, as a enemy of the state. It is a totalitarian regime not a communist regime. It has some communist componants but in the whole it is a totalitarian nationistic thing, called communist.
In the interest of nationalism currently buddhism is considered as part and parcel of china. Not sole part but part.

It was at one time....doing those things of communism..those days are past. Control of religion is part and parcel of asian governmental operations in a historical context. So they do do that...to manage it to their political aim. But not to eradicate it...that is no longer their aim.

It is sold that way...it is sold that way by certain groups to garnish your support as religious not nationalistic struggle. So you may support it more largly.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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