Buddhist Tantra has "unstruck sound" like Hindu Tantra?

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alwayson
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Buddhist Tantra has "unstruck sound" like Hindu Tantra?

Post by alwayson »

I was wondering if Buddhist Tantra has an "unstruck sound" like Hindu Tantra in the sense of a sound resonating from the heart chakra?

In Hindu tantra the unstruck sound is OM, and it resonates from the Heart Chakra.


P.S. If this is some top secret classified Vajrayana information, then ignore this thread.
Malcolm
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Re: Buddhist Tantra has "unstruck sound" like Hindu Tantra?

Post by Malcolm »

alwayson wrote:I was wondering if Buddhist Tantra has an "unstruck sound" like Hindu Tantra?

In Hindu tantra the unstruck sound is OM, and it resonates from the Heart Chakra.


P.S. If this is some top secret classified Vajrayana information, then ignore this thread.
The term anahata is translated intp Tibetan as mi zhig, which then gets translated in English as "indestructible", as in anahata bindu i.e indestructible drop.

but the meaning is quite different.
"Nonduality is merely a name;
that name does not exist."
—Kotalipa
alwayson
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Re: Buddhist Tantra has "unstruck sound" like Hindu Tantra?

Post by alwayson »

Ok thanks

Is OM associated with Dharmakaya?

I've heard that before.
Malcolm
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Re: Buddhist Tantra has "unstruck sound" like Hindu Tantra?

Post by Malcolm »

alwayson wrote:Ok thanks

Is OM associated with Dharmakaya?

I've heard that before.

Om stands for the three kāyas.
"Nonduality is merely a name;
that name does not exist."
—Kotalipa
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Adamantine
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Re: Buddhist Tantra has "unstruck sound" like Hindu Tantra?

Post by Adamantine »

If OM represents all three kayas then why when receiving the empowerments during Guru Yoga does it relate to the body - blessing, aka nirmanakaya?
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
Malcolm
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Re: Buddhist Tantra has "unstruck sound" like Hindu Tantra?

Post by Malcolm »

Adamantine wrote:If OM represents all three kayas then why when receiving the empowerments during Guru Yoga does it relate to the body - blessing, aka nirmanakaya?
Om is made of three parts A O Ṃ i.e. ཨ, ོ , and ཾ , hence it represents the three kāyas.

Though I am certain there is an explanation for why Oṃ represents the body out of body speech and mind (oṃ aḥ hūṃ), I don't have a ready answer.

N
"Nonduality is merely a name;
that name does not exist."
—Kotalipa
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Gyalpo
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Re: Buddhist Tantra has "unstruck sound" like Hindu Tantra?

Post by Gyalpo »

In ChNN Rinpoche: Precious Vase, in the explanation of four understanding, there is understanding thrue nature of letters. O alone stands for body, because it is something concrete, for A you dont have to do anything, just open mouth, but O we have to make some effort and so on. May be this is the point for OM. And rigpa is explained as anuswara...
Malcolm
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Re: Buddhist Tantra has "unstruck sound" like Hindu Tantra?

Post by Malcolm »

Gyalpo wrote:In ChNN Rinpoche: Precious Vase, in the explanation of four understanding, there is understanding thrue nature of letters. O alone stands for body, because it is something concrete, for A you dont have to do anything, just open mouth, but O we have to make some effort and so on. May be this is the point for OM. And rigpa is explained as anuswara...

I just this moment read an explanation in Pradīpoddyotanābhisaṃdhiprakāśikā by Bhavyakirti:

"A is Bhagavan Akshobhya; O is Bhagavan Amitabha and Ma is Mahavairocana".

N
"Nonduality is merely a name;
that name does not exist."
—Kotalipa
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Adamantine
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Re: Buddhist Tantra has "unstruck sound" like Hindu Tantra?

Post by Adamantine »

Namdrol wrote:

I just this moment read an explanation in Pradīpoddyotanābhisaṃdhiprakāśikā by Bhavyakirti:

"A is Bhagavan Akshobhya; O is Bhagavan Amitabha and Ma is Mahavairocana".

N
Nice.. that just leaves Ratnasambhava and Amoghasiddhi unaccounted for :tongue:
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
Malcolm
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Re: Buddhist Tantra has "unstruck sound" like Hindu Tantra?

Post by Malcolm »

Adamantine wrote:
Namdrol wrote:

I just this moment read an explanation in Pradīpoddyotanābhisaṃdhiprakāśikā by Bhavyakirti:

"A is Bhagavan Akshobhya; O is Bhagavan Amitabha and Ma is Mahavairocana".

N
Nice.. that just leaves Ratnasambhava and Amoghasiddhi unaccounted for :tongue:

Not really, body, speech and mind are included here.
"Nonduality is merely a name;
that name does not exist."
—Kotalipa
dakini_boi
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Re: Buddhist Tantra has "unstruck sound" like Hindu Tantra?

Post by dakini_boi »

Adamantine wrote:Nice.. that just leaves Ratnasambhava and Amoghasiddhi unaccounted for
Thinley Norbu gives another formulation for how OM corresponds to the Buddha families, in his commentary called The Light Rays of the Youthful Sun (from Cascading Waterfall of Nectar)

has five syllables:

Ah is Vairocana
a (short a) is Akshobhya
Naro (O) is Ratnasambhava
da-tse (crescent moon-shaped thing above O) is Amitabha
Thigle is Amoghasiddhi
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Karma Dorje
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Re: Buddhist Tantra has "unstruck sound" like Hindu Tantra?

Post by Karma Dorje »

And of course in Hindu tantra, OM is composed of the syllables AUM terminated by chandra and bindu. The meaning of these three syllables relate to waking (A), dream (U) and deep sleep (M) followed by vimarsha or Shakti (Chandra) and prakasha or Shiva (bindu). One can't equate directly the interpretation of the syllables in an overly simplistic fashion, but neither are they completely different. Who can say what the provenance of this underlying idea is? Certainly they are both effective methods to achieve the results of practice.

There is a vast unplumbed research topic comparing the Trika and Krama tantricism of Kashmir with the traditions of Uddiyana. I would hazard a shared genesis of much of the tantric tradition and a soteriology much closer than most partisan adherents of either system allow.
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himalayanspirit
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Re: Buddhist Tantra has "unstruck sound" like Hindu Tantra?

Post by himalayanspirit »

"AUM" is an English word and thus sounds like being comprised of three letters. In Sanskrit, it is just one symbol.
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nirmal
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Re: Buddhist Tantra has "unstruck sound" like Hindu Tantra?

Post by nirmal »

himalayanspirit wrote:"AUM" is an English word and thus sounds like being comprised of three letters. In Sanskrit, it is just one symbol.
The three 'parts' of "OM" have their special meanings based upon Buddhist philosophy which has been qualified or defined in each alphabet taught by the Buddha in the Avatamsaka Sutra.

A. Means that every Dharma is non-born from non-born nature, one may get the realization of Dharmakaya which is the Sunyata.
U.Means every Dharma is unattainable. unconsciousness and unspeakable,from this wonderful vibration one may get the Sambhogakaya
M. Means that the self is unattainable,hence every kind of life or form may be incarnated,and from this vibration one may actually achieve in Nirmanakaya
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Karma Dorje
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Re: Buddhist Tantra has "unstruck sound" like Hindu Tantra?

Post by Karma Dorje »

himalayanspirit wrote:"AUM" is an English word and thus sounds like being comprised of three letters. In Sanskrit, it is just one symbol.
Incorrect. It is composed of three "matras". This is exhaustively treated in Māndūkya Upanishad, from the eighth shloka onward.
"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava
Malcolm
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Re: Buddhist Tantra has "unstruck sound" like Hindu Tantra?

Post by Malcolm »

Karma Dorje wrote:I would hazard a shared genesis of much of the tantric tradition and a soteriology much closer than most partisan adherents of either system allow.

Definitely hazardous.
"Nonduality is merely a name;
that name does not exist."
—Kotalipa
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