Apparently, we have a diversity of views on Karma

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Nalanda
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Apparently, we have a diversity of views on Karma

Post by Nalanda »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma_in_Tibetan_Buddhism

And I understand none of them.

Sometimes I think the writings of B. Thanissaro is erudite but these views take it to a whole 'nother level. The differences are indistinguishable to me. I don't get it. Is there some kind of basic version on Tibetan Buddhist views on Karma?

'
IF YOU PRACTICE WITH A STRONG BELIEF IN WHAT
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YOU CAN ACCOMPLISH WITH YOUR PRACTICE.

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Aryjna
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Re: Apparently, we have a diversity of views on Karma

Post by Aryjna »

I don't know about this article in particular as I did not read it, but wikipedia is a terrible source of information for dharma-related topics.I would say it is best to avoid it and use https://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Main_Page or https://rywiki.tsadra.org/index.php/Main_Page instead.
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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Apparently, we have a diversity of views on Karma

Post by Kim O'Hara »

Aryjna wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:29 am I don't know about this article in particular as I did not read it, but wikipedia is a terrible source of information for dharma-related topics.I would say it is best to avoid it and use https://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Main_Page or https://rywiki.tsadra.org/index.php/Main_Page instead.
:juggling:
Wikipedia isn't particularly aligned with any particular school of Buddhism, which means that practitioners of every school can point to it and say that it's wrong.
Rigpa Wiki is "an online encyclopedia of Tibetan Buddhism", as it says on the packet, so it is a better source for one school but may be a worse source for all the others.

Since the question in the OP refers specifically to Tibetan Buddhism, Rigpa Wiki is a good suggestion on this occasion.

:juggling:
Kim
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Aryjna
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Re: Apparently, we have a diversity of views on Karma

Post by Aryjna »

Kim O'Hara wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:31 pm
Aryjna wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:29 am I don't know about this article in particular as I did not read it, but wikipedia is a terrible source of information for dharma-related topics.I would say it is best to avoid it and use https://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Main_Page or https://rywiki.tsadra.org/index.php/Main_Page instead.
:juggling:
Wikipedia isn't particularly aligned with any particular school of Buddhism, which means that practitioners of every school can point to it and say that it's wrong.
Rigpa Wiki is "an online encyclopedia of Tibetan Buddhism", as it says on the packet, so it is a better source for one school but may be a worse source for all the others.

Since the question in the OP refers specifically to Tibetan Buddhism, Rigpa Wiki is a good suggestion on this occasion.

:juggling:
Kim
The problem with wikipedia is that anyone can edit it and apparently the only criterion is that there is a citation in a book somewhere that seems to support the edit. This may work for many subjects, but not for dharma, as there is all kinds of misinformation in books, including academic ones. This makes wikipedia unreliable, unless perhaps one is interested in scholarly ideas on the subject, which are often based on misunderstandings.

Rigpawiki and other similar wikis seem to mostly limit themselves to qualified sources. If there are equivalent wikis by other schools, such as Theravada, then I imagine that these would be a lot better than wikipedia as well.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Apparently, we have a diversity of views on Karma

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

For a very clear understanding of karma, I strongly recommend this podcast (at least the first couple of episodes) called “What’s Karma Got To Do With It?”

https://urbandharmancpodcast.wordpress.com/

This talk is given by Dr. Hun Lye, originally from Malaysia, who is a Drikung Kagyu lama and who holds a doctoral degree in religious studies from the university of Virginia. I only mention this because he offers a lot of academically informed historical background information, which he presents clearly, very easy to understand. In order to put the meaning into perspective, he takes the subject of karma all the way back to pre-Buddhist India. I don’t think this presentation is biased towards the view of any particular tradition. You can regard this as either a Buddhist teaching or as an academic lecture series.

I’ve never met him and am not a student of his.
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pemachophel
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Re: Apparently, we have a diversity of views on Karma

Post by pemachophel »

IMO, another excellent source on practical information on karma is the chapter titled "Karma: Its Seed & Fruit" in Kunzang Lamai Shaylung (Words of My Perfect Teacher) by Dza Patrul Rinpoche.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ
PeterC
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Re: Apparently, we have a diversity of views on Karma

Post by PeterC »

Not really. The only two things we need to know about karma, which were taught by Sakyamuni, are (a) it functions, and (b) we cannot understand specifically how it functions with respect to a being or an act. The rest is just interesting theorizing regarding the method of action, which is a bit like having a theory of aerodynamics but not being able to manufacture an aircraft.
Nalanda
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Re: Apparently, we have a diversity of views on Karma

Post by Nalanda »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:13 pm For a very clear understanding of karma, I strongly recommend this podcast (at least the first couple of episodes) called “What’s Karma Got To Do With It?”

https://urbandharmancpodcast.wordpress.com/

This talk is given by Dr. Hun Lye, originally from Malaysia, who is a Drikung Kagyu lama and who holds a doctoral degree in religious studies from the university of Virginia. I only mention this because he offers a lot of academically informed historical background information, which he presents clearly, very easy to understand. In order to put the meaning into perspective, he takes the subject of karma all the way back to pre-Buddhist India. I don’t think this presentation is biased towards the view of any particular tradition. You can regard this as either a Buddhist teaching or as an academic lecture series.

I’ve never met him and am not a student of his.
This is an incredible share. Dr. Hun Lye and the podcast. Would you know of other monastics that are also PhD in religious studies? or more high quality podcast like this?
IF YOU PRACTICE WITH A STRONG BELIEF IN WHAT
YOU ARE DOING, THEN THERE IS NO LIMIT TO WHAT
YOU CAN ACCOMPLISH WITH YOUR PRACTICE.

CHAKUNG JIGME WANGDRAK RINPOCHE

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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Apparently, we have a diversity of views on Karma

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

One thing to keep in mind about karma is that it is only happening, only really matters, within the context of our illusionary experience to begin with. There is no “ultimate” karma or some kind of “karmic force” in the universe. “My actions” and “what happens to me” is totally based on the (very realistic, isn’t it?) experience of “me”, that we cling to, that repeatedly pulls us back into the experience of samsara.

A Buddha doesn’t experience karma or samsara precisely because a Buddha is one who has totally freed themselves from even the subtlest level of self grasping.

It’s like being chased by a tiger in a dream. Your actions, your “karma” may allow you to escape the tiger. But those actions and that “karma” only matters within the context of that dream. If you realize you are dreaming, maybe you can turn the tiger into a kitten. Or, if you wake up from the dream, just as a Buddha is “awakened” from samsara, then the tiger, attempts to escape it, and so on, lose all meaning.

We can’t avoid karma right now because we can’t avoid this experience of “me” that we are having right now. But, what the various Buddhist teachings such as sunyata and anatman provide are methods to reduce clinging to this experience. It doesn’t mean denying this experience (that would just be a different experience). Nor is this contradicted by meditation on “being here right now” in the moment, experiencing the space around us and so on, or mindfulness, being aware about everything we do. Those are important tools too, because they help to focus the mind instead of chasing after distractions.

This thing is, if you are trying to understand how objectively, karma functions in the universe, it doesn’t. It’s only as real as you are.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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