What is the motivation for Tibetan Buddhists to join the monastics?

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Miorita
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Re: What is the motivation for Tibetan Buddhists to join the monastics?

Post by Miorita »

When I wrote my comment, I was inspired by this movie:



My observation is that each line I write something, I have to bring 3 extra layers of protection with me because not one, but multiple cannons aim at me that it is not so.
jmlee369
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Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:22 am

Re: What is the motivation for Tibetan Buddhists to join the monastics?

Post by jmlee369 »

Nalanda wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:31 am
jmlee369 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:15 am
Nalanda wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:50 am


Won't the consort practice (even mental) be in conflict with the vinaya vow around keeping the thoughts pure from sexual contact?
Vinaya rules cover actions of body and speech, indirectly taming the mind. But that's besides the point. His Holiness the Dalai Lama has stated previously (I think in 1993?) that as far as he knows, there is no one alive who is qualified to do consort practice (this may be read as saying more specifically there is no one who can both maintain their bhikshu status and practice with an actual consort). I am reluctant to talk about this publicly, but in the spirit of His Holiness' advice to dispel misunderstandings I hope this will help. Consort practice is only strictly necessary at a very advanced stage of the Vajrayana path, so much so that by the time you are qualified, you would already have attained clairvoyance and other siddhis. That requires enormous dedication to practice, probably beyond the reach of even most monastics. In addition, such a qualified person would probably follow in the footsteps of the mahasiddhas such as Naropa, Virupa, Ghantapa, and Tibetan masters such as the 5th Lelung tulku, or closer to our own times, masters like the first Serkong Dorje Chang, Jamyang Khyentse Chokyi Lodro or even (one of the current) Karmapa Thaye Dorje who gave up their status as bhikshus. Until that point, monastic ordination can provide very good conditions for practising tantra.
Thanks for that. So unless I am misunderstanding, at the very advanced stages of Vajrayana, there are no monastics. ("beyond the reach of monastics") Before that gives us an idea that this is open for laity, you said also that clairvoyance and other siddhis would be there, so to me that is as good as saying, this isn't open for the laity as well. And what kind of advanced non-monastic is this Vajrayana practitioner that he/she is so advanced in the path, far exceeding monastics but still needing to practice this consort practice.

On a side note, if I am not misunderstanding, Glen Mullins mentioned that he gave some married couples some consort-type practices. I'll find the quote (video) if I can find it, but if that is being practiced by couples who are Buddhists, then that's not quite of advanced practice, is it?
Well there's a reason why the majority of the 84 mahasiddhas are lay yogis rather than monastics. In actuality, you only really need consort practice at that advanced stage if you are trying to reach the end of the path while still alive in this body. Jamgon Lama Tsongkhapa maintained celibacy and achieved that same result by relying on death rather than a consort out of concern for the monastic vows. So it's possible for monastics to make it all the way to the end of the tantric path as well while maintaining celibacy (although technically speaking you lose your monastic vows at death, so if you use death to complete your path you might not be a monastic at that point either?)

My guess is that what Glen Mullin is talking about is probably the yogas of everyday activities like eating, washing, sleeping, waking etc. Not the advanced practices where a consort is necessary and both partners are highly qualified at the mahasiddha level.
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