Initiation, and your experience with Buddhist Centers

[SilverFantasy]

Hi, I've been studying Buddhism for a couple years now, and am interested in entering some form of a sangha in the future. I was wondering if you could tell me anything about your experiences entering into Buddhist centers? Was it intimidating? Welcoming? Exciting?

If you want to know a little about me, I work as a therapist in homeless shelters within NYC, and while I've studied many religions for years, something really clicked when I started helping clients to get into mindfulness practices, and started doing continuing education in Buddhist influenced therapies such as Acceptance and Commitment therapy. I'm particularly interested within the Nyingma tradition, and one day being able to study Dzochen - though I'm open to practicing within other areas as well. So far I've been doing my own dharma practices and have been trying to put together some form of daily schedule, though I can't help but feel like I'm grabbing at a 100 different things and don't know where to really start, or how long to focus on particular aspects of practice.

Does anyone have any specific recommendations for NYC sanghas as well?

Thanks

[treehuggingoctopus]

https://www.dudjomtersar.org/

This is the sangha of Namgay Dawa Rinpoche, who -- apart from being a fully qualified Dudjom Tersar lama -- is self-effacingly humble, very approachable and kind to a fault.

[PeterC]

Pick the lama first and view the physical center / organization as a resource to support your practice. It’s all about the lama - don’t view it as a social club.

[climb-up]

I don’t exactly have experience with dharma centers per se.

I first sound ChNN and found my local Dzogchen Community ling so that I could attend transmission and then attended a few beginner classes.
It was very small groups, everyone was very nice and welcoming.

A couple years later I had become very interested in Dr Nida, read his books and listened to all of the online interviews and talks I could find and made the, for me, huge trip to a three day empowerment (it was literally the first time in about 20 years that I have been on trip without my family).
I felt very nervous, but I was going there to receive the teachings and figured even if no one cared for me that would be okay too…
…everyone was very nice, very friendly and it was really cool to hear other peoples dharma experiences and interests.

[Ayu]

I never visited any Buddhist center or event outside of Germany. IDK how warm-hearted or welcoming the average American Buddhists are.
But I would recommend having not too many expectations. The real quality of a Buddhist community can sit in a more hidden place. While the friendliness comes across as distanced, the atmosphere can be bright.
In my own experience, the lama and the center are connected and it is possible to check them simultaneously.

I would always be careful, if the community suggests to read only books of that one teacher. If they see a problem in following different teachers and paths, it's a sign of missing openness and probably you are visiting a cult.

[narhwal90]

I had occasion to visit a Kagyu center a few years ago, they were most welcoming. They were initially a bit distant until I introduced myself as interested in attending instead of just using them for parking. I was early so spent a while in their garden appreciating the flowers and being ignored by their cat. The lama wasn't present that day but there was no difficulty, just took my seat and did the things. Afterwards there was a short interval for conversation.

The practice setup was quite different than my usual, cushions and a little desk- that was cool. I went back for a morning service but they were not open for visitors then- so perhaps that might be a takeaway, it could be helpful to find out which services are open for visitors.

[SilverFantasy]

Hi, I appreciate everyone's comments.

Pick the lama first and view the physical center / organization as a resource to support your practice. It’s all about the lama - don’t view it as a social club.

Yeah, tbh, the idea of a social club scares me to the core LOL. I'm definitely going based on spiritual interest. Appreciate the advice though.

[SilverFantasy]

I don’t exactly have experience with dharma centers per se.

I first sound ChNN and found my local Dzogchen Community ling so that I could attend transmission and then attended a few beginner classes.
It was very small groups, everyone was very nice and welcoming.

A couple years later I had become very interested in Dr Nida, read his books and listened to all of the online interviews and talks I could find and made the, for me, huge trip to a three day empowerment (it was literally the first time in about 20 years that I have been on trip without my family).
I felt very nervous, but I was going there to receive the teachings and figured even if no one cared for me that would be okay too…
…everyone was very nice, very friendly and it was really cool to hear other peoples dharma experiences and interests.

Really interesting. Would love to do something like that one day.

I never visited any Buddhist center or event outside of Germany. IDK how warm-hearted or welcoming the average American Buddhists are.
But I would recommend having not too many expectations. The real quality of a Buddhist community can sit in a more hidden place. While the friendliness comes across as distanced, the atmosphere can be bright.
In my own experience, the lama and the center are connected and it is possible to check them simultaneously.

I would always be careful, if the community suggests to read only books of that one teacher. If they see a problem in following different teachers and paths, it's a sign of missing openness and probably you are visiting a cult.

Yes, this is my fear LOL! That, or the idea that someone's going to expect money, and is seeking people out primarily for financial gain.

[Lingpupa]

I'll say one thing, although this might or might not be relevant to you. I have seen a few people make far too big a deal out of going to a center for the first time. Most centers will have new people (some serious, some merely curious) coming through the front door on a regular basis. They are unlikely to think you are weird, they are unlikely to assume that they've caught a new "convert". They are unlikely to mind very much whether you come back, even if they do hope that you will. Just by going to see what the score is and get the feel of the place neither means that you are making a commitment to that center, nor that they are making a commitment to you. So there is no need to be nervous, and there is no need to have particularly high expectations.

They are unlikely to expect you to know their habits. Do they prostrate when they go into the shrine room? Probably. Will they mind if you don't? Probably not. Do they leave shoes by the entrance? Quite possibly. Will they mind if you don't? Quite possibly yes! If you want to do what the proverbial visitors to Rome do (i.e. what the Romans do), they will probably be happy to explain what their conventions are. You have nothing to prove, and they have no reason to expect you to do that.

If you are friendly, inquiring, and there to learn, the chances are that it will be no more stressful than going into a café for the first time.

Oh yes, one last thing – don't assume that everyone you meet, even those who seem like old hands, is going to be a fount of deep and well-digested Buddhist knowledge and experience. If you find one of those, consider yourself lucky!

And of course – good luck!

[Ayu]

I'll say one thing, although this might or might not be relevant to you. I have seen a few people make far too big a deal out of going to a center for the first time. Most centers will have new people (some serious, some merely curious) coming through the front door on a regular basis. They are unlikely to think you are weird, they are unlikely to assume that they've caught a new "convert". They are unlikely to mind very much whether you come back, even if they do hope that you will. Just by going to see what the score is and get the feel of the place neither means that you are making a commitment to that center, nor that they are making a commitment to you. So there is no need to be nervous, and there is no need to have particularly high expectations.

They are unlikely to expect you to know their habits. Do they prostrate when they go into the shrine room? Probably. Will they mind if you don't? Probably not. Do they leave shoes by the entrance? Quite possibly. Will they mind if you don't? Quite possibly yes! If you want to do what the proverbial visitors to Rome do (i.e. what the Romans do), they will probably be happy to explain what their conventions are. You have nothing to prove, and they have no reason to expect you to do that.

If you are friendly, inquiring, and there to learn, the chances are that it will be no more stressful than going into a café for the first time.

Oh yes, one last thing – don't assume that everyone you meet, even those who seem like old hands, is going to be a fount of deep and well-digested Buddhist knowledge and experience. If you find one of those, consider yourself lucky!

And of course – good luck!

Very

[SilverFantasy]

https://www.dudjomtersar.org/

This is the sangha of Namgay Dawa Rinpoche, who -- apart from being a fully qualified Dudjom Tersar lama -- is self-effacingly humble, very approachable and kind to a fault.

Wow, this place looks and sounds great. Other reviews seem to echo your sentiment, which already was very comforting. The fact that it's not a for-profit model makes me happy as well.

Thanks !

[Kim O'Hara]

I'll say one thing, although this might or might not be relevant to you. I have seen a few people make far too big a deal out of going to a center for the first time. Most centers will have new people (some serious, some merely curious) coming through the front door on a regular basis. They are unlikely to think you are weird, they are unlikely to assume that they've caught a new "convert". They are unlikely to mind very much whether you come back, even if they do hope that you will. Just by going to see what the score is and get the feel of the place neither means that you are making a commitment to that center, nor that they are making a commitment to you. So there is no need to be nervous, and there is no need to have particularly high expectations.

They are unlikely to expect you to know their habits. Do they prostrate when they go into the shrine room? Probably. Will they mind if you don't? Probably not. Do they leave shoes by the entrance? Quite possibly. Will they mind if you don't? Quite possibly yes! If you want to do what the proverbial visitors to Rome do (i.e. what the Romans do), they will probably be happy to explain what their conventions are. You have nothing to prove, and they have no reason to expect you to do that.

If you are friendly, inquiring, and there to learn, the chances are that it will be no more stressful than going into a café for the first time.

Oh yes, one last thing – don't assume that everyone you meet, even those who seem like old hands, is going to be a fount of deep and well-digested Buddhist knowledge and experience. If you find one of those, consider yourself lucky!

And of course – good luck!

As Ayu said,

Just to expand on the first bit - most dharma centres see the same pattern as most yoga studios, gyms, community choirs, gaming clubs, whatever. That is, out of every 20 people who come along once, half will realise straight away that it's not their kind of place and won't be back. Half of the rest will be keen enough to come along a few more times and then drop away for one reason or another. That leaves just a quarter who might become long-term members. It means that the centre's leaders and general members will likely welcome everyone but have rather low expectations and not invest too much time in the relationship at first.

And if you're new to a group, the same pattern applies: up to half will be (relative) newbies like yourself, a quarter will have been there for months or years, and the last quarter will have been there for ever and are often the leaders, founders or organisers.


Kim

[stoneinfocus]

https://www.dudjomtersar.org/

This is the sangha of Namgay Dawa Rinpoche, who -- apart from being a fully qualified Dudjom Tersar lama -- is self-effacingly humble, very approachable and kind to a fault.

Can confirm, Namgay Dawa Rinpoche is a treasure. If you're in NYC, his center, Yeshe Nyingpo, is worth checking out.

[KristenM]

Hi, I've been studying Buddhism for a couple years now, and am interested in entering some form of a sangha in the future. I was wondering if you could tell me anything about your experiences entering into Buddhist centers? Was it intimidating? Welcoming? Exciting?

If you want to know a little about me, I work as a therapist in homeless shelters within NYC, and while I've studied many religions for years, something really clicked when I started helping clients to get into mindfulness practices, and started doing continuing education in Buddhist influenced therapies such as Acceptance and Commitment therapy.

I’m a bit late to the conversation; however, I worked in LA for homeless shelters for youth for a bit and am a therapist. I’ve also studied ACT. I’m curious how it goes making a decent living and surviving in NYC while being a therapist at a homeless shelter? Challenging, I’d imagine...I lived in New York City but had to head for the west coast eventually as I required more sunshine. Cheers!

[Dharmasherab]

Speaking from personal experience. I visited various different Mahayana groups when I moved to Bristol, UK and whatever experiences I had in these places were all positive. One might say that it wasnt much of a transition for me given that I was originally a Theravada Buddhist (and matter of fact a part of me still is given that I am ordained as a Theravada novice), but it was a decision I took on my own and that also meant that I moved outside of my comfort zone which are Theravada Buddhist circles.

I do have to say that Buddhists who regularly came to the Tibetan Buddhist groups that I visited appeared to be highly devoted and took the teachings seriously (in a good way). I felt the sense of deep commitment to one's teacher (which wasn't emphasised a lot in Theravada). For this same reason in the early stages I held back from truly speaking my mind even in times when I had the impulse to do so, just to not to offend anyone. Its not to say that the heighted sense of devotion and faith that I saw was undesirable. It was more to do with not rubbing people the wrong way given that it is not always easy to say who is open minded towards disagreement and who will get triggered by things that they don't want to hear.

I knew the reason why I visited Mahayana groups. The main reason was to become familiar with Mahayana Buddhism as well as develop a healthy relationship with fellow Buddhists of different traditions. It also meant that I knew that my role was to listen more and speak less. The word 'Hinayana' tends to be used sometimes and Theravada Buddhists of Western origin can sometimes take offense. I was okay with the word Hinayana being used given that in Sri Lanka we use the word Hinayana on ourselves (I am originally from Sri Lanka). There were some centres / groups I been to where some said that Theravada Buddhism is a selfish path. During those situations I did not react and continued the conversation normally keeping in mind that Buddhism comes first (and Theravada and Mahayana come second).

Later I developed a deeper interest in Tibetan Buddhism and formally took vows in it.

I also know of a person who visited a Buddhist group in a different city. He can appear as the 'open-minded type'. He told me that he did question some aspects of the Sangha. The teacher of the centre did not have issues but he was treated differently by the committed followers. So he eventually stopped going there.

Extending further on this question - I joined Facebook groups to do with Vajrayana Buddhism and asked questions. One person thought that I was coming to troll the group given that some of the questions were perceived to be challenging. But the reason why I asked them was for me to become familiar with Tibetan Buddhism and not to assume that the doctrine is identical to Theravada Buddhism.

So what I would like to say is that as long as you show a sincere interest in the particular tradition, the people who regularly visit the centre would be happy to have you there. If you happen to be in an exploring phase where you are visiting more than one centre, there could be a chance you might hear something you may not agree with about another group. Not saying that it will always happen, but it is possible.

Good luck and hope to find that Buddhist group that your heart is in.

[KeithA]

Hi, I've been studying Buddhism for a couple years now, and am interested in entering some form of a sangha in the future. I was wondering if you could tell me anything about your experiences entering into Buddhist centers? Was it intimidating? Welcoming? Exciting?

If you want to know a little about me, I work as a therapist in homeless shelters within NYC, and while I've studied many religions for years, something really clicked when I started helping clients to get into mindfulness practices, and started doing continuing education in Buddhist influenced therapies such as Acceptance and Commitment therapy. I'm particularly interested within the Nyingma tradition, and one day being able to study Dzochen - though I'm open to practicing within other areas as well. So far I've been doing my own dharma practices and have been trying to put together some form of daily schedule, though I can't help but feel like I'm grabbing at a 100 different things and don't know where to really start, or how long to focus on particular aspects of practice.

Does anyone have any specific recommendations for NYC sanghas as well?

Thanks

I know your interest is in the Tibetan tradition, but you might want to stop by the Chogye Int'l ZC. My teacher is from that Sangha, and the head teacher there is RIchard Shrobe. Both of these teachers have a background in psychiatry, and I think you will find the folks there warm and down to Earth.

Unfortunately, some places are closed to the public, and I believe they are one of them. They are practicing fully online right now.

Good luck!

_/|\_
Keith

[Nicholas2727]

I'm not from New York but just got back from a short trip there and visited a few centers. I think its normal to be a little nervous the first time you go to a center. Its a very different experience, although I don't think it should worry you too much. You can always email a center that interests you and ask about the process they go through for each service. Many centers are online at the moment as well so you will be able to see it from that point of view which may help some of the anxious feelings.

The centers I visited were not in NYC, so I am not sure if you would want to drive to them but they were very welcoming. Palpung Thubten Choling was closed to the public although I was able to walk the grounds and the two monastics there were very friendly. Karma Triyana Dharmachakra was also closed but I ran into a monk while visiting who was very friendly and told me I am welcome back as soon as they open. You mentioned mindfulness practice is useful for you and Blue Cliff Monastery (TNH lineage) has a strong focus on this as well. The monastics there were extremely kind and welcoming. The Tendai Buddhist Institute is also located in New York (pretty far from NYC tho), but the teacher there is very kind and well trained in Tendai Buddhism.

Vikramasila Foundation is run by Khenpo Pema Wangdak who was very friendly and a great teacher. The foundation is also in NYC which will help. If your interest is only in Dzogchen, the centers I listed will not be suitable for that.