Tips on entry-level visualization

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明安 Myoan
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Re: Tips on entry-level visualization

Post by 明安 Myoan »

Thirded on the recommendation for Bokar Rinpoche's book on Chenrezig.
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PeterC
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Re: Tips on entry-level visualization

Post by PeterC »

Hazel wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:32 am
PeterC wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:17 am
wei wu wei wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:02 am Point taken. I'm definitely not trying to rush into practices I have no business getting into. My baseline was simply advice from HHDL (in terms of meditative stabilization) and a few guided visualization sessions (Tara visualizations) I've experienced at the local center. I extrapolated that it would be appropriate to explore some basic Deity Yoga, but maybe not.

I'll take a look at the book you've recommended.

Thanks
There's no real need to read anything until you have received an empowerment for a practice you're going to do. At that point it's usually better, at first, to get specific instructions from the lineage whose practice you are doing, because they all have slightly different approaches and emphasis in how to do this, and reading lots of different instructions will just get you confused.

The basic process is: (a) choose the teacher, (b) receive the practice the teacher thinks you should do, (c) practice according to teacher's instructions, (d) return to first step when you have problems or progress.
Is step b ever just transmission and permission and not empowerment?
Conceivably yes, but the important point is that steps (a) and (b) should never be skipped, even if you’re doing a practice that doesn’t require empowerment. It is almost always possible to find a lama who is qualified to give initial instructions, there’s really no excuse for DIY dharma.
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Re: Tips on entry-level visualization

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

明安 Myoan wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:26 am Thirded on the recommendation for Bokar Rinpoche's book on Chenrezig.
Bokar R also has a book titled:
Meditation: Advice for Begginners
Available at Amazon
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yagmort
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Re: Tips on entry-level visualization

Post by yagmort »

wei wu wei wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:47 pm No doubt what I'm doing is an entry-level practice...
imho, vidualization is non an entry-level practice at all..
i struggle to understand how does one suppose to do complex visualizations if one did not develop visualization faculty first? i can not vote for others, for me it is certainly something i can not do by default, i think i need a training for that. i can't quite comprehend how is one seriously expected to keep all the complex intricacies and details in a steady one-pointed way without prior training with something simplier. my point is 2-fold: 1. it takes time to train the capability to clearly visualize complex things, like deity figures, syllables in rotating mantras, etc. 2. it takes time to hold visualizations for a prolonged periods of time single-pointedly. how does one achive that without training?

the way i see it, first one need to get really good in maintaining the undistracted state. when good at it, something simple can be introduced as an object of meditation, lets say 2D green circle. after that, something more complex, like a HŪM, can be a next step. HUM is a rather complex already, so one can start with shabgyu, a chung, root letter etc., until stable. keep in mind one is still practicing shamatha all that time, so one is getting better at both shamatha and simple visualizations simultaneously. after that, i suppose, one is qualified to do ngöndro, deity yoga, what have you.
but it is not like that. beginning with ngöndro we are tasked to visualise very intricate things. there is a yidam practice almost immediately down the line. so what i do is first training to be able to remain in an undistracted state, once i am not being carried away by thoughts, as a next step of a session i visualize deep blue hum.
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Re: Tips on entry-level visualization

Post by Tata1 »

Best advice i can think of is dont stress about it and dont force anythig.
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Re: Tips on entry-level visualization

Post by Donny »

Tulku Thondups "Heart of Unconditional Love" focuses on Chenrezig but it is a great book. Can't recommend it enough!
"To the sharp weapons of the demons, you offered delicate flowers in return. When the enraged Devadatta pushed down a boulder to kill you, you practiced silence. Son of the Sakyas, incapable of casting even an angry glance at your enemy, what intelligent person would honor you as a friend for protection from the great enemy, fearful samsara?"
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Re: Tips on entry-level visualization

Post by wei wu wei »

PeterC wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:59 am
Hazel wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:32 am
PeterC wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:17 am

It is almost always possible to find a lama who is qualified to give initial instructions, there’s really no excuse for DIY dharma.
I’m curious about this. Has this been your experience because it hasn’t been mine. Maybe you know something I don’t. Or maybe I’m missing something. Unless you are including virtual events--which are a relatively new phenomenon--access to living dharma infrastructure and teachers really depends on where you live--and how much time you have after work and family (for many people). In my case, yes, there’s a great Tibetan Buddhist college in town and it happens to be in the lineage I’m interested in studying in, but--for as amazingly generous as it is, in terms of setting up events for the public--I don’t get the feeling that its primary goal is to be a practice center. It’s first mission is to its tuition-paying students.

I can’t even figure out how one goes about making personal contact with the head Lama, let alone develops some kind of ongoing personal student-teacher relationship with him. Again, generously the college does allow some virtual meets with him but I’ve been waiting a month just to schedule a single meeting with him--who knows when I’ll actually be able to meet him.

So, without the support of online forums and groups like this one, or books and websites, I am in a DIY dharma type situation. This is my karma! I don’t pretend that this gives me permission to ransack practices that require proper initiation or empowerment, but I’ve needed to be pretty independent.

How does one go about finding a qualified Lama so easily?
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Re: Tips on entry-level visualization

Post by Matt J »

It is interesting, because I live in an area saturated with dharma. However, I don't really connect with any of the local teachers or communities. So I took to traveling, and a lot of teachers travel. I would say don't fixate on a particular idea, explore and see what's out there. Sooner or later, it will work out.
wei wu wei wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:44 pm So, without the support of online forums and groups like this one, or books and websites, I am in a DIY dharma type situation. This is my karma! I don’t pretend that this gives me permission to ransack practices that require proper initiation or empowerment, but I’ve needed to be pretty independent.

How does one go about finding a qualified Lama so easily?
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Re: Tips on entry-level visualization

Post by PeterC »

wei wu wei wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:44 pm
I’m curious about this. Has this been your experience because it hasn’t been mine. Maybe you know something I don’t. Or maybe I’m missing something. Unless you are including virtual events--which are a relatively new phenomenon--access to living dharma infrastructure and teachers really depends on where you live--and how much time you have after work and family (for many people). In my case, yes, there’s a great Tibetan Buddhist college in town and it happens to be in the lineage I’m interested in studying in, but--for as amazingly generous as it is, in terms of setting up events for the public--I don’t get the feeling that its primary goal is to be a practice center. It’s first mission is to its tuition-paying students.

I can’t even figure out how one goes about making personal contact with the head Lama, let alone develops some kind of ongoing personal student-teacher relationship with him. Again, generously the college does allow some virtual meets with him but I’ve been waiting a month just to schedule a single meeting with him--who knows when I’ll actually be able to meet him.

So, without the support of online forums and groups like this one, or books and websites, I am in a DIY dharma type situation. This is my karma! I don’t pretend that this gives me permission to ransack practices that require proper initiation or empowerment, but I’ve needed to be pretty independent.

How does one go about finding a qualified Lama so easily?
It isn’t your karma. Well, in a general sense everything is affected by karma, but this you can and should change quite easily.

Everyone thinks that they need “their” lama, and need a “personal connection” (whatever that means) with the lama. That’s neither necessary nor practical. The lama is your teacher, not your therapist.

The easiest way to do this is:

1. Make a shortlist of teachers. Look for reputable people from major lineages, for simplicity, if you don’t have any obvious starting points near you. It’s very easy to use boards like this to screen them - people generally won’t say outright if they think a lama is bad, but they will always say if they think he/she is good.

2. Listen to them or read their teachings. Check whether you can at a basic level understand what they’re explaining and find it helpful.

3. Pick one, attend teachings in person or (these days) over the Internet. This usually involves travel. This isn’t something you have to do all the time. Often a couple of times a year gets you enough instruction.

4. Make contact. Pre-pandemic you would request an audience. You might not be able to see the main lama himself, you might see a khenpo or other senior member of the sangha. At this stage that’s ok. Again this may take a bit of time to set up.

5. Have the audience. There’s protocol that you can find elsewhere on this board about meeting senior lamas, but not all of them will care about that. Explain your situation - what teachings have you received, what practice have you done, etc. It’s perfectly ok to say that you’re starting from zero and just say briefly why you want to practice the Dharma. Ask what you should be doing. You will get perhaps a few questions and then advice on what to do.

6. Figure out how to receive those practices. At the outset you won’t be given anything particularly obscure or hard to get.

7. Go off and practice until you have issues or results. Then return to 5. You don’t need to see the lama too often. Obviously you should try to receive anything they teach publicly, but an in-person discussion about your practice is only justified when you’ve done enough practice to have something to discuss: these are busy people. You might think you have lots of urgent problems or issues in your practice that require advice; generally that won’t be the case and the answer will be just to keep practising. You might feel the temptation to seek advice from the lama on mundane matters - money, work, love, etc - again, that is a bit of a waste of them as a resource, they are not experts on these things, it’s quite easy to commission pujas on your behalf for mundane problems, and you can get advice here on what/how.

If you’re in any of the major lineages then the curriculum is usually pretty standard, and the best thing you can do is get on with it. Switching around between lineages greatly increases the amount of work you have to do, so is generally not a great idea. Everyone will tell you why their lineage is the best, and they do all have differences, but compared to nothing (which is where you are now) they are all excellent.

So that’s it, really. There are many, many excellent lamas accessible to us even in the pandemic. No excuse not to do it properly.
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Re: Tips on entry-level visualization

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Virtual Dharma events are actually not a very new phenomenon.

They are certainly more common now, but we have been debating the validity of online empowerments for instance, for at least ten years here....it's been a known thing for that long. Sakya monastery has been broadcasting their practices since 2014 or something, and so have a number of other centers, Lamas, etc.
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Re: Tips on entry-level visualization

Post by PeterC »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:55 am Virtual Dharma events are actually not a very new phenomenon.

They are certainly more common now, but we have been debating the validity of online empowerments for instance, for at least ten years here....it's been a known thing for that long. Sakya monastery has been broadcasting their practices since 2014 or something, and so have a number of other centers, Lamas, etc.
This is an important point - it is well-established, and there is a ton of teachings going on online. If you were a Drikungpa you could have received multiple major empowerments, the Gong Chik, and tons of meditation instructions since the pandemic began. If you were a bonpo you could have received large parts of multiple major Dzogchen cycles. Etc etc - serious, profound teachings. People are always going to argue about the validity of online empowerments, though nobody seriously argues about the validity of online lungs at this point, but even if you didn't want to receive empowerments online, you could have got pretty much everything else.
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Re: Tips on entry-level visualization

Post by wei wu wei »

Thanks to all for the excellent advice, pointers, and good book recommendations--quite a productive conversation for me.
Much Gratitude!
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