Non-duality, mind and body

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Pårl
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Non-duality, mind and body

Post by Pårl »

Hi there,

Is there anyone out there that explain to me in reasonable simple terms the concept of non-duality? Does Mahayana Buddhism consider the mind and body to be one and the same, or is the body merely a temporary and mortal carrier for the mind within one life-time?
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Non-duality, mind and body

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

The mind is actually an infinite, ongoing series of events, each giving rise to the next.
It’s not ‘one thing’.

Same with the body, an ongoing series of trillions of events occurring at a molecular level.

Thus, there are infinite possible points of interaction, constantly.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
Donny
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Re: Non-duality, mind and body

Post by Donny »

Pårl wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:37 pm Hi there,

Is there anyone out there that explain to me in reasonable simple terms the concept of non-duality? Does Mahayana Buddhism consider the mind and body to be one and the same, or is the body merely a temporary and mortal carrier for the mind within one life-time?
Non-duality is not "Oneness". Its rather to go beyond the concepts of "oneness" and "multitude". Our perception of "duality" - as well as our perception of "oneness" is due to our current state of mind that perceives things as existing on their own, when in reality there is no basis for this perception.

Things are empty of inherent existence. So when we examine "mind" and "body" we can't find an "essence". Seeing them as "one" or "two" would again superimpose the perception of an inherent "essence" - either seperate essences for each of them or a shared essence for both of them. In the first case there would be no possibility to make a connection between them. In the seconde case the would not be discernable as seperate entities.

But that does not mean that they are "nonexistent", the "exist" within the scope of all things as dependent origination. As "infinite possible points of interaction" as has been said in the previous response.

There are different ways in Mahayana Buddhism to approach this topic of emptiness. You'll find the most consequential in the Philosophy or Arya Nagarjuna and the "fourfold reasoning" of the Madhyamika School.
"To the sharp weapons of the demons, you offered delicate flowers in return. When the enraged Devadatta pushed down a boulder to kill you, you practiced silence. Son of the Sakyas, incapable of casting even an angry glance at your enemy, what intelligent person would honor you as a friend for protection from the great enemy, fearful samsara?"
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Natan
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Re: Non-duality, mind and body

Post by Natan »

Pårl wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:37 pm Hi there,

Is there anyone out there that explain to me in reasonable simple terms the concept of non-duality? Does Mahayana Buddhism consider the mind and body to be one and the same, or is the body merely a temporary and mortal carrier for the mind within one life-time?
Mind and body are interdependent. Non-duality in Buddhism means not grasping at good and bad, high and low, inside and out, etc.
Giovanni
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Re: Non-duality, mind and body

Post by Giovanni »

Crazywisdom wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:29 am
Pårl wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:37 pm Hi there,

Is there anyone out there that explain to me in reasonable simple terms the concept of non-duality? Does Mahayana Buddhism consider the mind and body to be one and the same, or is the body merely a temporary and mortal carrier for the mind within one life-time?
Mind and body are interdependent. Non-duality in Buddhism means not grasping at good and bad, high and low, inside and out, etc.
:good:
Body and mind are described as separate for the sake of convenience in debate. The Buddhist teaching is that actually, body and mind arise together in mutual dependence. One is not a container for the other.
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Pårl
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Re: Non-duality, mind and body

Post by Pårl »

Interesting. But I'm afraid still a little bit beyond my current level of understanding. I will consult the suggested reading and ask my teach when the moment seems right. It seems so pivotal to the life approach, but I feel like I'm somehow still missing the "key" to the concept.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Non-duality, mind and body

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Pårl wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:56 pm Interesting. But I'm afraid still a little bit beyond my current level of understanding. I will consult the suggested reading and ask my teach when the moment seems right. It seems so pivotal to the life approach, but I feel like I'm somehow still missing the "key" to the concept.
Maybe you could elaborate a little.
What exactly is the ‘concept’ you are struggling with?
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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Pårl
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Re: Non-duality, mind and body

Post by Pårl »

From a purely pshysiological point of view neurology is a medical specialism, in the same way neprhology or oncology is. To that extent, brand is, without doubt one organ within the human body. But brains have thoughts in a way a toe, a nose or a cecum cannot. And these thoughts - are they independant of the organism the generates them, or merely the brain processing data.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Non-duality, mind and body

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Pårl wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:38 pm From a purely pshysiological point of view neurology is a medical specialism, in the same way neprhology or oncology is. To that extent, brand is, without doubt one organ within the human body. But brains have thoughts in a way a toe, a nose or a cecum cannot. And these thoughts - are they independant of the organism the generates them, or merely the brain processing data.
To say a brain has thoughts is like saying a CD has music. There’s no music in or in a CD. There are only electronic digital signals that are converted into sound waves by a playback machine.

All that the brain has is neurons and neurelectrical activity which is experienced by the mind (awareness) as “experience”. But the brain itself doesn’t having ‘experiences’ or thoughts
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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Re: Non-duality, mind and body

Post by TannersHatch »

Pårl wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:38 pm From a purely pshysiological point of view neurology is a medical specialism, in the same way neprhology or oncology is. To that extent, brand is, without doubt one organ within the human body. But brains have thoughts in a way a toe, a nose or a cecum cannot. And these thoughts - are they independant of the organism the generates them, or merely the brain processing data.
Ill have a go!
Thoughts are constructs of the mind. physical and non-physical memories, ideas, beliefs are all constructs of the mind which come about a though dependent origination (duality) of there own. You can't have an idea without cognition and differentiation for example.
The mind is beginingless but the process of death, rebirth and the relearning of physical existence obscures our perception.

The problem partly lies in the term 'mind' with this question and how we relate it to self. If we come of a realisation of non-self through realisations such as emptiness, impermanence, and dependent origination. Seeing the self in its essence as a designation given to a state resulting from the amalgamation of 'the aggregates' (form, consciousness etc) we see mind less as our personality, thoughts, ideas etc and more as a continuem, a mind beyond mind which unites us all and is our true 'self'. This is not a state we reach after death of course but only through continued study and meditation during firstly human and then also higher births.

I hope this helps, I'm no scholar so my understanding is limited and I may have made mistakes.
Last edited by TannersHatch on Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Non-duality, mind and body

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Mind and body ‘point’ to one another in very subtle way, and in that sense are mutually dependent.

Nonetheless, one can discover through analytic meditation that there is really no such thing as a discrete body or mind outside of organizing sense data via concepts, and these mutually dependent references.

Even the basic, ever changing self image that can be noticed with a little sensitivity is connected to the conceptual creation of a body, the conceptual split into ‘mental’ and ‘physical’ events, and is related to that organization of sense data.

This is just my personal observation based on experiences, not a doctrinal statement.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

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