Working with fear

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Donny
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Working with fear

Post by Donny »

I'm very interested in the question of how fear can be understood in a Buddhist and especially a Vajrayana context. It is a very basic human emotion or state of mind that is connected to a lot of survival mechanisms and creates a lot of suffering in everyday life. Often the way it is dealt with is more harmful then the initial experience.

How can it be classified in relation to the 5 or 3 poisons? Is it a emotion or a mental state? How is it worked with practically and experientally?
"To the sharp weapons of the demons, you offered delicate flowers in return. When the enraged Devadatta pushed down a boulder to kill you, you practiced silence. Son of the Sakyas, incapable of casting even an angry glance at your enemy, what intelligent person would honor you as a friend for protection from the great enemy, fearful samsara?"
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KathyLauren
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Re: Working with fear

Post by KathyLauren »

Fear, like pain, is a basic hard-wired survival mechanism. If a person does not have a fear of falling, for example, they should avoid mountain-climbing or they will die an early death.

As with pain, the connection to suffering is our aversion to the experience. When we experience fear, the sensible thing to do is to face it and analyze it. What is the object of fear? What is the actual risk? Is there any need for action? What can be done to reduce the risk of harm? Instead, our aversion makes us turn away from it. The fear is not dealt with, and thus remains and becomes suffering.

Other than the fact that our aversion to fear causes suffering, as all aversions and desires do, I am not aware of a specific Buddhist context to fear.

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Queequeg
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Re: Working with fear

Post by Queequeg »

Not necessarily a Vajrayana approach, but I found this helpful:

https://suttacentral.net/mn4/en/bodhi
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
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Rick
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Re: Working with fear

Post by Rick »

You might enjoy this Tibetan Buddhist-based method for dealing with fear: How to Feed Your Demons.
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Working with fear

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Fear is a form of aversion, as far as the poisons go.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

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Dorje Shedrub
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Re: Working with fear

Post by Dorje Shedrub »

Chod practice is a way to work with fear.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Working with fear

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

I recall a talk by Dz. Ponlop Rinpoche where he said that really, all of our problems are about fear in one way or another.

A lot of people are motivated by fear. They do things in order to protect themselves from whatever threats they imagine are out there.

I know someone who, after brushing the family dog in the back yard, left the fur on the ground for birds to collect for their nests. His wife said, “pick up all that fur or rats will come and gather it for their nests!” This really happened, and it illustrates how some people are motivated by “positive possibilities” while others seem to always be acting out of self-defense (as is the case with this person), so instead of thinking, “I can do this, I can make this happen” it’s more like, “if I don’t do this or that, then what if something bad happens?”

I’m sorry, this doesn’t really answer your question about the Vajrayana view of fear. But my point is, fear is always about guarding the self. Me, my possessions, my family, my country, whatever. So it is intrinsically linked to self-grasping.

Lamas I have known seem to be relatively fearless. That doesn’t mean they wouldn’t worry a little in a dangerous situation, but that their general outlook is not driven by some need to be on guard all the time. So, I think that comes with practice.

Not living in fear can look like apathy to others, because you aren’t panicking all the time over every little thing.

There is a well-known quote among Tibetans but I think it is from Shantideva:
‘If a problem can be solved, there’s no point in worrying; if a problem can’t be solved, worrying won’t help.’

This probably describes the Buddhist attitude in general.
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Konchog Thogme Jampa
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Re: Working with fear

Post by Konchog Thogme Jampa »

Donny wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:04 am I'm very interested in the question of how fear can be understood in a Buddhist and especially a Vajrayana context. It is a very basic human emotion or state of mind that is connected to a lot of survival mechanisms and creates a lot of suffering in everyday life. Often the way it is dealt with is more harmful then the initial experience.

How can it be classified in relation to the 5 or 3 poisons? Is it a emotion or a mental state? How is it worked with practically and experientally?
It’s a quality of the ego self grasping that gets manipulated a lot in the world at large.

Love is probably the antidote in terms of it being a profound quality of dharma itself.
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Re: Working with fear

Post by Way-Fun »

Get to know it. With discernment regarding what is genuinely dangerous or harmful, move towards the things that frighten you. When fear overtakes you, do not turn away. What is fear? What is it made of? What is it that can be harmed by fear? If you feel like your world is about to end, let it. Let fear kill you. Better this than to live as though dead. Make friends with failure and humiliation. Fail sincerely at stand-up comedy, pour your heart into a poem and share it at an open mic, ask out a hundred people who are sure to reject you, try dancing and singing in public. Turn towards the places in your heart where it hurts to look. ​Emotional discomfort can be a compass that points to freedom once you resolve to unlearn the habit of avoiding it.

The badness of fear is conceiving of fear as something you need to be free from, and you, a self, as apart from that, maintaining illusory distance; holding a position in relation to fear is not seeing things as they are. As Sengcan says, "If you wish to see the truth, then hold no opinions for or against anything," and "When a thing no longer offends, it ceases to exist in the old way." Nagarjuna says, "Perfect wisdom is like a great ball of flames ungraspable from all sides."
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明安 Myoan
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Re: Working with fear

Post by 明安 Myoan »

Diverse thoughts concerning fear.

Through chanting practices, you can train the gate of speech away from internal and external expressions of fear and towards the Three Jewels.
Fear is a unique opportunity for sincere refuge in the Three Jewels.
I gained a lot of confidence when scared out of my wits, in nightmares and waking life, to find mantras and nembutsu uniquely beneficial. If there's an affinity or relationship with a deity, the response can be swift.
I have less fear, by a lot now, because of chanting.
The buddhas are said to display the four fearlessnesses and dispel the fear of sentient beings who see them. This is a benefit of looking at images of them.

Fear also reminds me of animals, and you can help their fear by attaining buddhahood ASAP, so you can manifest in a form that doesn't scare them. In the interim, FPMT recommends reciting mantras for animals.
For example, Chenrezig dispels fear and saves beings from lower birth, two great benefits for animals.

Fear also relates in my mind to the wrathful aspects of deities.
Fear, like anger, can dramatically change your perspective of something.
Conversely, the wrathful aspects can work on your behalf and scare off obstacles, selfish thinking, the stupidity of short-term selfishness.
I read somewhere a simple routine of imagining peaceful Tara in the morning and wrathful Tara at bedtime. It makes a lot of sense.
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Konchog Thogme Jampa
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Re: Working with fear

Post by Konchog Thogme Jampa »

Tara helps specifically with Fear
Donny
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Re: Working with fear

Post by Donny »

Thanks everybody for the great input. It's very much appreciated :anjali:

I was also think about Tara like some of you relpied. And I was always wondering about that since Tara is said to protect from the sources of fear but were never clear if she is working on fear directly. Yesterday, I came across this interesting articel that talks about Green Tara and fear, and views fear as blockages in our energy system. And since Tara is connected to the Wind Element she helps overcome these blocks:

https://tricycle.org/magazine/green-tar ... h-us-fear/

The longer I contemplate that topic the more interesting it gets, since fear seems to be to root of so much suffering. Especially in these turbulent times. And it seems to be of the very root of self-grasping. Almost like a deep rooted reaction of perceiving things as inherently existent.
"To the sharp weapons of the demons, you offered delicate flowers in return. When the enraged Devadatta pushed down a boulder to kill you, you practiced silence. Son of the Sakyas, incapable of casting even an angry glance at your enemy, what intelligent person would honor you as a friend for protection from the great enemy, fearful samsara?"
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Donny
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Re: Working with fear

Post by Donny »

Dorje Shedrub wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:27 pm Chod practice is a way to work with fear.
I was also thinking about Chod, but I'm not really convinced if this is still true when you practice it - like we used to do - in a comfy dharma center :rolling:
"To the sharp weapons of the demons, you offered delicate flowers in return. When the enraged Devadatta pushed down a boulder to kill you, you practiced silence. Son of the Sakyas, incapable of casting even an angry glance at your enemy, what intelligent person would honor you as a friend for protection from the great enemy, fearful samsara?"
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lelopa
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Re: Working with fear

Post by lelopa »

Donny wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:05 am
Dorje Shedrub wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:27 pm Chod practice is a way to work with fear.
I was also thinking about Chod, but I'm not really convinced if this is still true when you practice it - like we used to do - in a comfy dharma center :rolling:
Then do it alone... at night... the opened window in the back....or outside in the woods, forest.... cemetery.
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Donny
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Re: Working with fear

Post by Donny »

lelopa wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:19 am
Donny wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:05 am
Dorje Shedrub wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:27 pm Chod practice is a way to work with fear.
I was also thinking about Chod, but I'm not really convinced if this is still true when you practice it - like we used to do - in a comfy dharma center :rolling:
Then do it alone... at night... the opened window in the back....or outside in the woods, forest.... cemetery.
.
Yeah, that true that might generate more fear :twothumbsup: Possibly more connected to social standards but fear nontheless
"To the sharp weapons of the demons, you offered delicate flowers in return. When the enraged Devadatta pushed down a boulder to kill you, you practiced silence. Son of the Sakyas, incapable of casting even an angry glance at your enemy, what intelligent person would honor you as a friend for protection from the great enemy, fearful samsara?"
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muni
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Re: Working with fear

Post by muni »

lelopa wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:19 am
Donny wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:05 am
Dorje Shedrub wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:27 pm Chod practice is a way to work with fear.
I was also thinking about Chod, but I'm not really convinced if this is still true when you practice it - like we used to do - in a comfy dharma center :rolling:
Then do it alone... at night... the opened window in the back....or outside in the woods, forest.... cemetery.
A graveyard or wood? Too comfortable and peaceful. But it could work for other.

If on the moment a killer animal is coming in growling way towards your fragile beloved one you try to protect, the poor one is in directly life danger because you can nothing do, are you able to feel impartial compassion-love for as well the killer as for your poor beloved one? No difference?

I failed.
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lelopa
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Re: Working with fear

Post by lelopa »

muni wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:05 am
lelopa wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:19 am
Donny wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:05 am

I was also thinking about Chod, but I'm not really convinced if this is still true when you practice it - like we used to do - in a comfy dharma center :rolling:
Then do it alone... at night... the opened window in the back....or outside in the woods, forest.... cemetery.
A graveyard or wood? Too comfortable and peaceful. But it could work for other.

.........
.......
The cemetaries and graveyards and very large forests in east-europe f.e. at night
are a little more impressive than in the near of a big city in germany f.e. at midday.
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