Opinions on dream yoga course?

[Johnny Dangerous]

... It’s simply not true that sleep/dream is some highly restricted practice outside Kagyu, IME. For that matter, one can even get those kinds of teachings on the Mahayana level, focused on using shamatha/vipaysana as one falls asleep, etc.

i am not adressing if it restricted/open, if it is helpful or not or if this guy good/bad, qualified or not. i merely adressed the kagyu point of view on dream yoga. in Naro Chödrug, one first gains proficiency in tummo to be able to bring the subtle winds into the central channel, melt tigles and develop 4 blisses.
then one need to train in luminous clarity/clear light, specifically clear light of sleep being the prerequisite for dream yoga. i also tried to emphasized that Naro Chödrug is taught as a set where things work together you may say in synergy, amplifying each other. in this tradition it is not a common approach to dissect one particular yoga thinking just one will be sufficient to attain enlightenment. it simply not gonna work without tummo.

heres the quote from Mullin's book of six yogas of Naropa as presented according to Geluk/Tsongkapa view:

..The next aspect of the illusory body training involves working with the dream state. In the actual application of dream yoga it is necessary to borrow the technology from the clear light doctrine related to meditating on and retaining the clear light of sleep; for although a small degree of dream yoga can be implemented on the basis of conscious resolution conjoined with a conventional meditational technique, such as shamata or vipasyana, the degree of proficiency required in the Six Yogas emanates from the foundation, the inner heat doctrine, and what the meditator has achieved by means of it in terms of the yogic ability to induce the elemental dissolutions and consciously experience the stages of that dissolution, from the vision of the mirage up to the emergence of the clear light.
The ability to induce these dissolutions and retain them at their various phases during waking state meditation is instrumental to the application of the technology at the time of sleep and dream.
Tsongkhapa points this out again and again. When the ability is present in the waking state, implementing it in sleep and dream is a simple matter. As he puts it,

In the first of these ... during the waking state one gathers the vital energies into the central channel and dissolves them, inducing the experiences of the four emptinesses. The manner of the application is that in the process of first retaining the clear light of sleep one cultivates awareness of the four emptinesses of sleep. After that, when dreams occur one recognizes them as such. When awareness of the four emptinesses of sleep is present, no other technique for retention of awareness in dreams is required.

...whatever he teaches, he teaches it with blessing of his guru.

how do you know? he neither mentions his guru nor his blessings. he didn't even mention what tradition he teach dream yoga according to.

anyway, i think OP got a scope of opinions about the subject to make a decision.

It takes two seconds to find out who he is and what are his credentials.

Im pretty sure that if this same exact course was given but an asian mean with the title rinpoche this conversation would not be happening.

Yeah, I’m leaning the same direction.

[treehuggingoctopus]

So who is his main teacher?

I tried to find it but could not.

[Tata1]

So who is his main teacher?

I tried to find it but could not.

Tsultrim gyataso

[treehuggingoctopus]

So who is his main teacher?

I tried to find it but could not.

Tsultrim gyataso

Thanks!

[Johnny Dangerous]

So do you guys have the same criticism of ChNN putting out his Practice of the Night Book, or TWR publishing his dream/sleep books?

Simply bringing up Kagyu praxis as if it’s the universal standard bis a little pointless, but I’m curious whether this complaint itself is universal.

It’s also worth keeping in mind, not everyone who ends up buying said books are neophytes. Same may have had empowerment and previous teachings.

[justsit]

So who is his main teacher?

I tried to find it but could not.

Tsultrim gyataso

Is this the teacher to whom you are referring?
http://www.ktgrinpoche.org/

[SilenceMonkey]

So who is his main teacher?

I tried to find it but could not.

Tsultrim gyataso

From his bio on his website:

Extensive Study and Practice
In 1987 Andrew began his study of Tibetan Buddhism, which eventually brought him to study it extensively in Nepal, India, Bhutan, and Tibet, receiving teachings from many of the greatest masters.

Doesn’t really go into specifics, but there’s no reason to doubt it. This is where he did his three year retreat:

https://gampoabbey.org/sopa-choling-thr ... at-center/

[gb9810]

His 3-year retreat at Sopa Choling was under Thrangu rinpoche,
and
"During one long retreat, I had another nyam. When I came out of retreat, I raced to share my “realization” with my teacher, Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamtso Rinpoche. As I shared my enlightenment experience," ...
https://www.lionsroar.com/just-when-you ... lightened/

[Arnoud]

His 3-year retreat at Sopa Choling was under Thrangu rinpoche,
and
"During one long retreat, I had another nyam. When I came out of retreat, I raced to share my “realization” with my teacher, Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamtso Rinpoche. As I shared my enlightenment experience," ...
https://www.lionsroar.com/just-when-you ... lightened/

Although I agree with what he says, I always have a hard time reconciling those views with the different hagiographies I have read. They seem to solely exist of nyams. Vision after vision after miracle.
Another issue I have that it’s very rarely clear what’s understood by realization. Nyams are easy: expediences of bliss, clarity or non-thought. People seem to have a lot of different opinions on what realization entails.

[Malcolm]

So do you guys have the same criticism of ChNN putting out his Practice of the Night Book, or TWR publishing his dream/sleep books?

This book is mostly Michael Katz’s trip, with very little actual practice of the night content. And it’s not dream yoga per se.

Dream yoga is a completion stage practice, and as such depends on the creation stage and proper empowerment.

[gb9810]

His 3-year retreat at Sopa Choling was under Thrangu rinpoche,
and
"During one long retreat, I had another nyam. When I came out of retreat, I raced to share my “realization” with my teacher, Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamtso Rinpoche. As I shared my enlightenment experience," ...
https://www.lionsroar.com/just-when-you ... lightened/

Although I agree with what he says, I always have a hard time reconciling those views with the different hagiographies I have read. They seem to solely exist of nyams. Vision after vision after miracle.

I suppose that's what sells... or what the biographers find worthy of passing down.

Another issue I have that it’s very rarely clear what’s understood by realization. Nyams are easy: expediences of bliss, clarity or non-thought. People seem to have a lot of different opinions on what realization entails.

I don't claim to be remotely well read or have a good memory of what I've read, yet it's not uncommon for various texts to describe what constitutes understanding, experience, vs. actual realizations, at the coarse vs. subtle or lesser, intermediate, advanced levels..etc. I suppose a common yardstick is the bhumis.

[Sara H]

Andrew Holocek is quite knowledgable about dream yoga. Dream yoga itself is not all that complicated of a practice. It's fairly straightforward, and is essentially a practice of lucid dreaming, and stuff you do while you're awake to encourage lucid dreaming, as well as things to do in your dreams as a practice once lucid dreaming is achieved.

If you want a dream yoga transmission, Dr. Nida Chenagstang and the Yuthok community offer them fairly regularly. Bob Thurman sometimes co-leads those with Dr. Nida. But Andrew is quite knowledgable and is a dream Yogi himself. If I'm not mistaken, it's his main practice or one of them.

I would feel quite comfortable with a course by Andrew. At the end of the day, experience with a practice, (and the ability to explain it simply to others), is what is most important. And Andrew is well-known for his fluency in Dream Yoga.