There's a reincarnation of Chogyam Trungpa and emanation of Padmasambhava?

Forum for discussion of Tibetan Buddhism. Questions specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
Locked
Knotty Veneer
Posts: 967
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:50 pm

Re: There's a reincarnation of Chogyam Trungpa and emanation of Padmasambhava?

Post by Knotty Veneer »

Malcolm wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:52 pm At one time, ChNN’s politics were very left wing. Just look at the number of radical leftists among his early group of students, it might not be an accident that Merigar was sited in Tuscany, which is a very heavily socialist region of Italy, where Communist parties 🎉 are weekend events, seen regularly in Castel Del Piano, etc.
I attended many "feste dell'Unità" in my youth studying in Italy in the 80s. Great free food and cheap red wine, ballo liscio (old-time dancing) for the pensioners. Happy days. Didn't know about Merigar unfortunately at that time.
This is not the wrong life.
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: There's a reincarnation of Chogyam Trungpa and emanation of Padmasambhava?

Post by Malcolm »

dharmafootsteps wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:13 pm
That’s interesting I didn’t realise that. I was surprised to find the prevalence of right wing views among community members these days.
That’s more of Eastern European trend, post-Stalinism, combined with Western European anti-Muslim sentiments, which have been prevalent in the DC since the second Iraq war. In general, US DC people are bleeding heart liberals.
frankie
Posts: 126
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:29 pm

Re: There's a reincarnation of Chogyam Trungpa and emanation of Padmasambhava?

Post by frankie »

PeterC wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:32 pm
frankie wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:44 pm
Loving all the 'shoulds' and 'shouldn'ts' there.

Only remember that there are views that differ from your no doubt long term experiential and academic Tibetan Buddhist expertise. Consider curbing the tendency to absolute certainties. And appreciate that others have also been round the block a few times over many years with it. Buddhism is quite radical you see; interptretations, innovations and upayas are fair abounding.

As for the rest, you may find the cooling and reassuring balm of agreement based in another post I put there.
So no specific response to any of my points then.

If you don’t like the rules, take it up with the house
Not required, but thanks for your arch advice. I am currently going along with moderation decisions on what is allowed to be said or not in this forum. No choice really. like it or not, they must be the final arbiter.

If you care to read carefully all that has been said without rushing to printing judgement, you'll find all will be revealed.
frankie
Posts: 126
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:29 pm

Re: There's a reincarnation of Chogyam Trungpa and emanation of Padmasambhava?

Post by frankie »

Malcolm wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:38 pm
frankie wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:53 pm
Malcolm wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:22 pm

It’s not merely advertisement. Or do you think that when the Buddha asserted there was no awakening outside his dharma and vinaya, he was just shilling for business?
Ouch...pulling the boss on me! No, but if he did say exactly that without further exegesis, discussion, room for movement or dispensation, then... I contend that it's horseshit. With all due love and respect.
He asserted that outside his dharma and discipline there were no stream entrants, once-returners, never-returners, and arhats, and that the doctrines of other teachers were devoid of such persons, that is, awakened persons.

He stated this in more than one sutra.
Fantastic.
User avatar
heart
Posts: 6288
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:55 pm

Re: There's a reincarnation of Chogyam Trungpa and emanation of Padmasambhava?

Post by heart »

Malcolm wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:52 pm
MiphamFan wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:58 am
I remember that ChNN said that he suggested back in the pre-cultural revolution days that monasteries should start contributing to the labour economy before the communists came, so they could adapt to the modern world. They accused him of being a communist and ignored his suggestions.
At one time, ChNN’s politics were very left wing. Just look at the number of radical leftists among his early group of students, it might not be an accident that Merigar was sited in Tuscany, which is a very heavily socialist region of Italy, where Communist parties 🎉 are weekend events, seen regularly in Castel Del Piano, etc.
I used to live in Italy in the early 80's and Monte Amiata where Merigar is was a region that had many abandoned farms. People felt that picking olives was too difficult and moved to the cities. So buying a place was quite cheap. When it comes to politics often it seemed that half the people where communists and the other half fascist so dinner could become quite heated.

Still I love Italy. :smile:

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: There's a reincarnation of Chogyam Trungpa and emanation of Padmasambhava?

Post by Malcolm »

heart wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:05 pm
Malcolm wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:52 pm
MiphamFan wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:58 am
I remember that ChNN said that he suggested back in the pre-cultural revolution days that monasteries should start contributing to the labour economy before the communists came, so they could adapt to the modern world. They accused him of being a communist and ignored his suggestions.
At one time, ChNN’s politics were very left wing. Just look at the number of radical leftists among his early group of students, it might not be an accident that Merigar was sited in Tuscany, which is a very heavily socialist region of Italy, where Communist parties 🎉 are weekend events, seen regularly in Castel Del Piano, etc.
I used to live in Italy in the early 80's and Monte Amiata where Merigar is was a region that had many abandoned farms. People felt that picking olives was too difficult and moved to the cities. So buying a place was quite cheap. When it comes to politics often it seemed that half the people where communists and the other half fascist so dinner could become quite heated.

Still I love Italy. :smile:

/magnus
Yes, that’s completely true.
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: There's a reincarnation of Chogyam Trungpa and emanation of Padmasambhava?

Post by Malcolm »

frankie wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:23 pm
I am not one who is convinced of everything in sutras, commentaries or from teachers.
This is the Vajrayāna forum, and so, Vajrayāna rules.

:rules:
Please take notice of the various sub-fora on the front page and further sub-fora within sub-fora. As a general matter, discussions in sub-fora should relate to their designated subjects. For instance, Tibetan Buddhism should be discussed in the Tibetan Buddhism sub-forum, and East Asian Buddhism should be discussed in the East Asian Buddhism sub-forum. Similarly, in further specialized sub-fora, discussions should be limited to the relevant subject.

Please take further notice that it is not appropriate to question or critique teachings and practices of traditions in sub-forums dedicated to those particular traditions. For example, do not challenge the core Dharma concepts and principles of Pure Land Buddhism in the Pure Land sub-fora.

Questioning and debating the teachings and traditional interpretations of general or specific Buddhist traditions is permitted in the Open Dharma sub-forum only. However, such discourse must be conducted sensitively and reasonably argued and grounded. Unfounded or arbitrary critiques will be subject to moderation.

That is how things work at DW. If you want to take umbrage at statements in the tantras that assert that only Vajrayāna is an effective vehicle for liberation in this age, that's fine (but do so in another forum, like Open Dharma), but I am not at all clear you understand why such teachings are found in said classes of literature. It isn't mere puffery, as you suggested above. Your critique fails the test of arbitrariness, since you admit above it is all just based on your personal opinion. So even the Open Dharma forum, it might not fly.
Last edited by Malcolm on Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
PeterC
Posts: 5192
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:38 pm

Re: There's a reincarnation of Chogyam Trungpa and emanation of Padmasambhava?

Post by PeterC »

frankie wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:23 pm I am not one who is convinced of everything in sutras, commentaries or from teachers. My preference is to compare and contrast, both with myself, experience, and also that of others. Ask questions, consider other viewpoints, and not get too sucked into stuff that smells cultish, overly prescriptive and doctrinaire, without full recourse and allowance for honest, open query and questioning.
Have fun with your DIY dharma
Like many here, I can …
Yawn.
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: There's a reincarnation of Chogyam Trungpa and emanation of Padmasambhava?

Post by Malcolm »

PeterC wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:11 pm
frankie wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:23 pm I am not one who is convinced of everything in sutras, commentaries or from teachers. My preference is to compare and contrast, both with myself, experience, and also that of others. Ask questions, consider other viewpoints, and not get too sucked into stuff that smells cultish, overly prescriptive and doctrinaire, without full recourse and allowance for honest, open query and questioning.
Have fun with your DIY dharma
But Peter, this person worked in BUDDHIST PUBLISHING. I guess this means something. What, I am not sure, but it means they read some BUDDHIST BOOKS. All in all, just another anonymous person on the internet with a boatload of opinions for which they never need take responsibility.
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 17092
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: There's a reincarnation of Chogyam Trungpa and emanation of Padmasambhava?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Just a reminder: Rules-wise triumphalism is pretty much a given, as long as it stays in the correct forum.

Despite claims to the contrary, if you look in other sub fora this is not unique to Vajrayana, there are just a lot more Vajrayana people here.

Go to the Nichiren Sub you find Nichiren triumphalism, statements of the primacy of sitting in the Soto Zen section, etc.

Not trying to discourage debate around whether or not it’s healthy or good, just a reminder about the forums protocols.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
User avatar
treehuggingoctopus
Posts: 2507
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:26 pm
Location: EU

Re: There's a reincarnation of Chogyam Trungpa and emanation of Padmasambhava?

Post by treehuggingoctopus »

PeterC wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:34 pmHere at the Dharma Yoga Shala we teach Iyengar Yoga, Hot Yoga, Astanga Yoga and Kali Yoga.
So 1990s, awfully cute. Get yourselves up-to-date, mates: https://chocolate.yoga/chocolate-yoga-about/
PeterC wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:18 amThe risk with the DC is of inability to move on leading it to becoming a retirement home for an increasingly small number of practitioners. It is however frustrating that mukpo sr's revealed practices continue to be propagated - though not so much by his older students - while ChNNr's termas look increasingly likely to die out in this generation.
The difference must have much to do with the Zeitgeist. We are living through a period of massive, ever-increasing institutional failure (where institution is to be understood in the broadest way possible, i.e., any group of people doing things together with a common aim). Problems which would be dealt with matter-of-factly thirty years ago are literally unsolvable now, for a hundred reasons. The amount of 'organisational stupidity,' as they put it, is just unbelievable (reporting after trying to learn how the faculty will be dealing with Covid in the winter semester. Please do not ask about the details, the screen will not bear it.)
Last edited by treehuggingoctopus on Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Générosité de l’invisible.
Notre gratitude est infinie.
Le critère est l’hospitalité.

Edmond Jabès
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: There's a reincarnation of Chogyam Trungpa and emanation of Padmasambhava?

Post by Malcolm »

PeterC wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:18 am
I don't really see the DC choosing leaders who happen to be rapists with drug problems, so the odds of that are low.
That's not the "off the rails" I was referring to. I was referring some strange new interpretations of Dzogchen that are percolating up.
The risk with the DC is of inability to move on leading it to becoming a retirement home for an increasingly small number of practitioners.
Well, I was at the Tsegyalgar third memorial ganapuja last night. I was among the youngest there, and I am 59.
PeterC
Posts: 5192
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:38 pm

Re: There's a reincarnation of Chogyam Trungpa and emanation of Padmasambhava?

Post by PeterC »

treehuggingoctopus wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:30 pm
PeterC wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:34 pmHere at the Dharma Yoga Shala we teach Iyengar Yoga, Hot Yoga, Astanga Yoga and Kali Yoga.
So 1990s, awfully cute. Get yourselves up-to-date, mates: https://chocolate.yoga/chocolate-yoga-about/
:rolling:

Brilliant but also somehow terrifying
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 17092
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: There's a reincarnation of Chogyam Trungpa and emanation of Padmasambhava?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

PeterC wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:57 am
treehuggingoctopus wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:30 pm
PeterC wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:34 pmHere at the Dharma Yoga Shala we teach Iyengar Yoga, Hot Yoga, Astanga Yoga and Kali Yoga.
So 1990s, awfully cute. Get yourselves up-to-date, mates: https://chocolate.yoga/chocolate-yoga-about/
:rolling:

Brilliant but also somehow terrifying
I thought it was parody at first :?
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
Padmist
Posts: 187
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:12 am

Re: There's a reincarnation of Chogyam Trungpa and emanation of Padmasambhava?

Post by Padmist »

So the mechanics of this aggregates. Where are they? Where are these aggregates? Are they in our mind, outside, in some metaphysical space/domain?
PeterC
Posts: 5192
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:38 pm

Re: There's a reincarnation of Chogyam Trungpa and emanation of Padmasambhava?

Post by PeterC »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:17 am
PeterC wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:57 am
treehuggingoctopus wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:30 pm

So 1990s, awfully cute. Get yourselves up-to-date, mates: https://chocolate.yoga/chocolate-yoga-about/
:rolling:

Brilliant but also somehow terrifying
I thought it was parody at first :?
I did too. Was half expecting them to discuss how kundalini-powered chocolate-saturated explosive diarrhea was great for purifying the nadis
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: There's a reincarnation of Chogyam Trungpa and emanation of Padmasambhava?

Post by Malcolm »

Padmist wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:27 am So the mechanics of this aggregates. Where are they? Where are these aggregates? Are they in our mind, outside, in some metaphysical space/domain?
Where to begin. If you don’t know what the aggregates are, you do not understand what you are from a Buddhist point of view. At base you are mind/matter.

One of your aggregates is material, made of the five material sense organs and five material senses objects. It’s called the material aggregate.

The other four aggregates are consciousness and the mental factors.

The aggregates of mental factors are three: sensation, perception, and formations. Sensation is the mental factor of the sensations of pleasure, pain, happiness, sadness and indifference. Perception is the mental factor that coordinates discernment of one object from another. There are 51 mental factors in the aggregate of formations. That list can be sought elsewhere.

Consciousness, the knower, is the mental subject perceiving all this. That subject lacks all true identity, any identity it possesses is a mere, designated identity imputed on a false conceptual construct, I-am, which has no lore existence than an illusion. It’s present moment of cognition is nonconceptual, the handling of that immediate perception by mental factors is conceptual, both in terms of memory consciousness and speculative consciousness.

That’s it. That’s all you are. Five aggregates.
User avatar
Sādhaka
Posts: 1279
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:39 pm

Re: There's a reincarnation of Chogyam Trungpa and emanation of Padmasambhava?

Post by Sādhaka »

How are the Five Skandhas related to the Five Koshas (if at all)?

According the ‘Theosophical Septenary’, just above the Five Koshas (Five aggregates(?)), you have Buddhi (blos) and Atma. And above those Seven (after the ‘Ring Pass-not’), you have the Three Kayas.

Also, there is:

Sattva, Jñāṇa, sems (Citta), blos (Buddhi), and yid (Manas)....
Last edited by Sādhaka on Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:42 am, edited 6 times in total.
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: There's a reincarnation of Chogyam Trungpa and emanation of Padmasambhava?

Post by Malcolm »

Sādhaka wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:14 am How are the Five Skandhas related to the Five Koshas (if at all)?
They are not at all related.
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: There's a reincarnation of Chogyam Trungpa and emanation of Padmasambhava?

Post by Malcolm »

Sādhaka wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:14 am
According the ‘Theosophical Septenary’, just above the Five Koshas (Five aggregates(?)), you have Buddhi (blos) and Atma. And above those Seven (after the ‘Ring Pass-not’), you have the Three Kayas.

Also, there is:

Sattva, Jnana, sems (Citta), blos (Buddhi), and yid (Manas)....
Who gives a flying f**k what those Victorian grifters, amateurs, and dilletantes had to say?
Locked

Return to “Tibetan Buddhism”