6 R's and Loving Kindness teaching

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shanyin
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6 R's and Loving Kindness teaching

Post by shanyin »

Hello. I am beggining to ask myself: Why aren't I more interested in Tibetan Buddhism? I have thought since I think compassion is a good thing I should be more interested in it.

What is the perspective of Tibetan Buddhist on Bhante Vimalaramsi's teachings? He teaches the 6 R's: Recognize, Release, Relax, Re-smile, Return, Repeat. He teaches that in breathing meditation and loving kindness meditation He said that if Buddha would have taught a very complicated system of meditation, that noone would have tried it or something to that effect. :quoteunquote:

https://www.dhammasukha.org/the-6rs

He reads Suttas, which I'm assuming is not Tibetan teachings. He also talks about smiling and remembering to try to see how minds attention gets distracted.

It is true that I post sometimes about different schools, sometimes when I get excited about Buddhism I start thinking of different schools.

If someone reads this and they desire for me to ask a more specific question, I invite you to and I will try to calm down and answer. You say, why are you interested in this and does it work for you? I say I am only recently trying to teach myself to 6r's and I have enjoyed his teachings on the Youtube for some time. Some I agree with some I don't but I like when I hear that it doesn't matter how many times your mind gets distracted in meditation. :consoling:
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: 6 R's and Loving Kindness teaching

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

It is good to find something that you can use and work with.
Why is this not taught in Tibetan Buddhism? No reason. That’s like asking, “why does one restaurant serve rice, but another one serves noodles?” Both will fill your stomach. It’s just two different things. There is not really any “why?” about it.
The 6Rs are a way to teach vipassana meditation. There are many types of meditation, Vipassana, shamatha, chanting, visualization, and so on, each for different purposes.
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shanyin
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Re: 6 R's and Loving Kindness teaching

Post by shanyin »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:17 am It is good to find something that you can use and work with.
Why is this not taught in Tibetan Buddhism? No reason. That’s like asking, “why does one restaurant serve rice, but another one serves noodles?” Both will fill your stomach. It’s just two different things. There is not really any “why?” about it.
The 6Rs are a way to teach vipassana meditation. There are many types of meditation, Vipassana, shamatha, chanting, visualization, and so on, each for different purposes.
:thanks:
I believe he calls it "Tranquil Wisdom Meditation".
shanyin
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Re: 6 R's and Loving Kindness teaching

Post by shanyin »

I was WRONG about the title of the meditation.

It is called Tranquil Wisdom Insight Meditation. So I see now how you would say it is vipassana. :rules:
Inedible
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Re: 6 R's and Loving Kindness teaching

Post by Inedible »

It is true that when they teach it they suggest using metta rather than the breath. Not just because so many people start with bad habits, either.
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Zhen Li
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Re: 6 R's and Loving Kindness teaching

Post by Zhen Li »

It is worth keeping in mind that Bhante V’s method isn’t taught by other Theravada teachers, but is based on his own experience teaching it over many years. He started with teaching breath meditation and I encountered him at that time and found his explanations connect well with my own experiences of meditation, so practiced it for a time and still use it sometimes. But many people come from Vipassana and others have done concentration on a single point of the breath, which means that they will take a longer time to adjust to TWIM than if they just change to loving kindness. He also suggests that loving kindness is more often referred to as a way to liberation than anapanasati in the Nikayas, which I’d agree with.

Why not in Tibetan Buddhism? The goal is different. TWIM is for attaining arhatship, that’s not a goal of Mahayana schools. But cultivating tranquility can certainly be of advantage to anyone.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: 6 R's and Loving Kindness teaching

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

shanyin wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:41 amHello. I am beggining to ask myself: Why aren't I more interested in Tibetan Buddhism? I have thought since I think compassion is a good thing I should be more interested in it.
“Compassion” is a very loaded term. I think it is a mistaken assumption made by many, that compassion isn’t a motivator at all in Theravāda Buddhism, or that Theravāda is a path for selfish people or whatever. Compassion is universal, isn’t it? It is, at least according to HH Dalai Lama. The difference in traditions is really more technical, in my opinion, both in drawing from different source texts as well as emphasis on methodology. I asked my friend, an Ajahn from Thailand about that about 15 years ago. I mentioned that Mahayana teaches to put others before oneself, even reaching attainment. He said his view was that while that’s fine, it’s like people drowning after a shipwreck at sea. You can’t really rescue others if you haven’t rescued yourself first. Whether that’s true or not, it’s a valid argument, and I don’t want to delve into comparative religion (not the forum for it anyway) but I just wanted to toss this in, in the context of the OP statement.

Recently the same Ajahn posted on Facebook, “Kindness sustains the world”. In other words, kindness is really all there is holding our little planet together. Kindness, of course, means how one relates not only to oneself, but in this case, to others, to the whole world. One can “think compassion is a good thing” and find their footing on many paths within Buddhism.

Being “more compassionate” doesn’t necessarily draw one to Mahayana/Vajrayana, and being “less compassionate” doesn’t lead one to practice Theravāda. There are plenty of selfish people practicing Vajrayana, and plenty of compassionate people practicing Theravāda. Altruistic bodhicitta isn’t the primary method in Theravāda. That’s the main difference (in this context).
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Malcolm
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Re: 6 R's and Loving Kindness teaching

Post by Malcolm »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:21 pm I asked my friend, an Ajahn from Thailand about that about 15 years ago. I mentioned that Mahayana teaches to put others before oneself, even reaching attainment. He said his view was that while that’s fine, it’s like people drowning after a shipwreck at sea. You can’t really rescue others if you haven’t rescued yourself first. Whether that’s true or not, it’s a valid argument, and I don’t want to delve into comparative religion (not the forum for it anyway) but I just wanted to toss this in, in the context of the OP statement.
Shantideva makes it very clear that in order to help others, a bodhisattva must preserve themselves.
Being “more compassionate” doesn’t necessarily draw one to Mahayana/Vajrayana, and being “less compassionate” doesn’t lead one to practice Theravāda.
The śrāvaka schools do not teach the nonreferential compassion found in Mahāyāna.
shanyin
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Re: 6 R's and Loving Kindness teaching

Post by shanyin »

Because I spend alot of time listening to Buddhist videos, wonder about differences between schools, clinging to teachings, it makes me think I should give up with Buddhism. But I think Tibetan Buddhism is good. Oh and also not having a Sangha in my municipality.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: 6 R's and Loving Kindness teaching

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

shanyin wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:38 pm Because I spend alot of time listening to Buddhist videos, wonder about differences between schools, clinging to teachings, it makes me think I should give up with Buddhism. But I think Tibetan Buddhism is good. Oh and also not having a Sangha in my municipality.
Not having a sangha or teacher is really a challenge, like being out in the middle of the ocean.
But compared with even 50 years ago, it is very easy to get good teachings these days. You don’t have to climb a mountain in Nepal any more!

I think you should ask for suggestions for videos or podcasts, because most people who post here are very dedicated to practice. You might get a lot of different suggestions, but at least this might filter out some of the nonsense-dharma out there in cyberspace, and this may help you focus on finding your direction.
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shanyin
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Re: 6 R's and Loving Kindness teaching

Post by shanyin »

Do you think that compassion being a loaded term is more subjective or perceptive?
shanyin
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Re: 6 R's and Loving Kindness teaching

Post by shanyin »

Maybe let me rephrase. Do you think that compassion being universal is subjective and that compassion being a loaded term is more varied by the individual? Matter of opinion type thing.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: 6 R's and Loving Kindness teaching

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

shanyin wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:24 am Maybe let me rephrase. Do you think that compassion being universal is subjective and that compassion being a loaded term is more varied by the individual? Matter of opinion type thing.
It is a loaded term.
Buddhist terminology gets very specific.
For example, compassion is regarded as one thing. And loving kindness is regarded as another thing. They can of course be practiced together. I’m just mentioning this because in casual western thinking, the two generally describe the same thing.
Compassion, as an English language word, literally means to be with (com+) the suffering (passion) of someone, to empathize or identify with the pain that someone else is experiencing.

Compassion can be conditional and limited, or unconditional and unlimited. Also, one doesn’t have to like another person to generate and/or feel compassion for them. This is an import point, I think. You can really despise someone, yet at the same time know that what you despise about them, their actions or their attitude or whatever is a product of their own unhappiness or ignorance.

For example, you might hate how someone is greedy and only thinks about themselves and doesn’t care who they hurt, and this might stir up a lot of anger or hatred towards that person. But then you also realize what a pitiful creature someone must be to end up like that, not to mention what the future holds for them. Then where does the anger go? Very often, I think, what we think we experience as anger or hatred for someone is actually a kind of “wrathful” wish that they were just not so messed up, not greedy, not bigoted or whatever. Buried within the anger we feel, often there is the seed of compassion after all.

So, I think there are a lot of ways to approach compassion and especially in Buddhism, different teachers teach different methods, but in the end it’s all the same.

There is also a very practical or utilitarian, one might even say selfish aspect to focusing on compassion in the Mahayana context, and that is simply that caring about others is the immediate method to counteract self-grasping. As Shantideva points out, it is also the most rewarding. And because of this, because we all like to chase after rewards, from a behavioral standpoint, intentionally practicing compassion towards others will change how your brain works. There is some scientific data to back this up. But it’s why Mahayana Buddhism regards compassion for others as the path of liberation from samsara for oneself.
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shanyin
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Re: 6 R's and Loving Kindness teaching

Post by shanyin »

I'd like to point out that I did not ask why Tibetans do not teach or have no discovered TWIM.
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