Emphasis on Dream Yoga

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Hazel
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Emphasis on Dream Yoga

Post by Hazel »

What traditions put the most emphasis on Dream Yoga?
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Malcolm
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Re: Emphasis on Dream Yoga

Post by Malcolm »

Hazel wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:57 pm What traditions put the most emphasis on Dream Yoga?
All.
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Hazel
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Re: Emphasis on Dream Yoga

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Malcolm wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:06 pm
Hazel wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:57 pm What traditions put the most emphasis on Dream Yoga?
All.
Is it considered an advanced teaching in all of them?
Happy Pride month to my queer dharma siblings!

What do you see when you turn out the lights?
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Re: Emphasis on Dream Yoga

Post by Malcolm »

Hazel wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:07 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:06 pm
Hazel wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:57 pm What traditions put the most emphasis on Dream Yoga?
All.
Is it considered an advanced teaching in all of them?
Generally, yes.
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Hazel
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Re: Emphasis on Dream Yoga

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Malcolm wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:08 pm
Hazel wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:07 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:06 pm

All.
Is it considered an advanced teaching in all of them?
Generally, yes.
I'll have to be patient then. I have a knack for lucid dreaming and have been experimenting with practicing in my dreams (mantra recitations mostly). I was hoping to try to dive into a bit more.

I also have been met with same great misfortune and am now looking for another teacher and am eying other traditions.
Happy Pride month to my queer dharma siblings!

What do you see when you turn out the lights?
Malcolm
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Re: Emphasis on Dream Yoga

Post by Malcolm »

Hazel wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:20 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:08 pm
Hazel wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:07 pm

Is it considered an advanced teaching in all of them?
Generally, yes.
I'll have to be patient then. I have a knack for lucid dreaming and have been experimenting with practicing in my dreams (mantra recitations mostly). I was hoping to try to dive into a bit more.

I also have been met with same great misfortune and am now looking for another teacher and am eying other traditions.
It is generally considered connected with the completion stage, that's all. But if you are able to recognize you are dreaming when you are dreaming, then this is sufficient.
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Konchog Thogme Jampa
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Re: Emphasis on Dream Yoga

Post by Konchog Thogme Jampa »

Hazel wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:20 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:08 pm
Hazel wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:07 pm

Is it considered an advanced teaching in all of them?
Generally, yes.
I'll have to be patient then. I have a knack for lucid dreaming and have been experimenting with practicing in my dreams (mantra recitations mostly). I was hoping to try to dive into a bit more.

I also have been met with same great misfortune and am now looking for another teacher and am eying other traditions.
Pray to Guru Rinpoche if you want something practice related that’s good. Generally we’re all dealing with obstacles. Hope you get the practice.
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Re: Emphasis on Dream Yoga

Post by SilenceMonkey »

Hazel wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:20 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:08 pm
Hazel wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:07 pm

Is it considered an advanced teaching in all of them?
Generally, yes.
I'll have to be patient then. I have a knack for lucid dreaming and have been experimenting with practicing in my dreams (mantra recitations mostly). I was hoping to try to dive into a bit more.

I also have been met with same great misfortune and am now looking for another teacher and am eying other traditions.
That's very cool. I'm also interested in lucid dreaming, but haven't had much success yet on my own. Why don't you seek out some teachers who are good at Dream Yoga and ask them what's involved to learn the practice?
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Konchog Thogme Jampa
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Re: Emphasis on Dream Yoga

Post by Konchog Thogme Jampa »

Zabsang Khandro Nyinthig Dudjom Tersar Ngondro has Dream Yoga. Find the lung from someone from the lineage who has it if you like. It’s basically a Dzogchen Ngondro.
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Re: Emphasis on Dream Yoga

Post by Matt J »

Why do you have to be patient?

Tenzin Wangyal is doing sleep/dream yoga retreats this summer. Andrew Holocek is about to start a Zoom bookclub on his book, Dream Yoga. Lama Lena has just started a Dream Yoga group also. Plenty of teachers would be willing to teach you.
Hazel wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:20 pm I'll have to be patient then. I have a knack for lucid dreaming and have been experimenting with practicing in my dreams (mantra recitations mostly). I was hoping to try to dive into a bit more.

I also have been met with same great misfortune and am now looking for another teacher and am eying other traditions.
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Hazel
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Re: Emphasis on Dream Yoga

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Matt J wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:49 pm Why do you have to be patient?

Tenzin Wangyal is doing sleep/dream yoga retreats this summer. Andrew Holocek is about to start a Zoom bookclub on his book, Dream Yoga. Lama Lena has just started a Dream Yoga group also. Plenty of teachers would be willing to teach you.
Hazel wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:20 pm I'll have to be patient then. I have a knack for lucid dreaming and have been experimenting with practicing in my dreams (mantra recitations mostly). I was hoping to try to dive into a bit more.

I also have been met with same great misfortune and am now looking for another teacher and am eying other traditions.
Wouldn't this entail empowerment? I haven't been bestowed refuge vows. My understanding is that I need that and Bodhisattva vows for the empowerment to be valid.
Happy Pride month to my queer dharma siblings!

What do you see when you turn out the lights?
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Re: Emphasis on Dream Yoga

Post by GrapeLover »

Hazel wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:23 pm
Matt J wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:49 pm Why do you have to be patient?

Tenzin Wangyal is doing sleep/dream yoga retreats this summer. Andrew Holocek is about to start a Zoom bookclub on his book, Dream Yoga. Lama Lena has just started a Dream Yoga group also. Plenty of teachers would be willing to teach you.
Hazel wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:20 pm I'll have to be patient then. I have a knack for lucid dreaming and have been experimenting with practicing in my dreams (mantra recitations mostly). I was hoping to try to dive into a bit more.

I also have been met with same great misfortune and am now looking for another teacher and am eying other traditions.
Wouldn't this entail empowerment? I haven't been bestowed refuge vows. My understanding is that I need that and Bodhisattva vows for the empowerment to be valid.
Just as a tangential point, the refuge and bodhisattva vows are given as an element of the empowerment ceremony itself, so you would get them then if you hadn’t got them beforehand

In practice I don’t believe any of the cited teachers would have empowerment as a prerequisite for their dream yoga teachings
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Re: Emphasis on Dream Yoga

Post by Danny »

Hazel wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:23 pm

Wouldn't this entail empowerment? I haven't been bestowed refuge vows. My understanding is that I need that and Bodhisattva vows for the empowerment to be valid.
Depends on the tradition, or the teacher or guide who is experienced in introducing students to these types of practices. There are teachers out there that instruct on Mi lam yogas. It’s really their understanding and capacity on what comes first for the student.
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Re: Emphasis on Dream Yoga

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Hazel wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:23 pm
Matt J wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:49 pm Why do you have to be patient?

Tenzin Wangyal is doing sleep/dream yoga retreats this summer. Andrew Holocek is about to start a Zoom bookclub on his book, Dream Yoga. Lama Lena has just started a Dream Yoga group also. Plenty of teachers would be willing to teach you.
Hazel wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:20 pm I'll have to be patient then. I have a knack for lucid dreaming and have been experimenting with practicing in my dreams (mantra recitations mostly). I was hoping to try to dive into a bit more.

I also have been met with same great misfortune and am now looking for another teacher and am eying other traditions.
Wouldn't this entail empowerment? I haven't been bestowed refuge vows. My understanding is that I need that and Bodhisattva vows for the empowerment to be valid.
It seems like some Bonpo teachers tend to be more open/less restrictive about this stuff. TWR's books on the subject are pretty much open to anyone who wants to do them, in the Buddhist world it would not be this way generally. I have done in person Dream Yoga with TWR though, and yes it involved an empowerment of sorts, I am not sure how this stuff works in Bon.

As mentioned earlier, Andrew Holecek and others also teach Dream Yoga stuff that is unrestricted.

Anyway, I mean you just have to go with what you think your teacher (or whoever you look to for definitive answers) would say about you practicing in this way. There are for sure some reputable teachers who openly teach Dream Yoga without any kind of empowerment. Whether that is good or bad, and worth your time or not really depends on your teacher and your own disposition towards this stuff.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
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Re: Emphasis on Dream Yoga

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Hazel wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:23 pm
Matt J wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:49 pm Why do you have to be patient?

Tenzin Wangyal is doing sleep/dream yoga retreats this summer. Andrew Holocek is about to start a Zoom bookclub on his book, Dream Yoga. Lama Lena has just started a Dream Yoga group also. Plenty of teachers would be willing to teach you.
Hazel wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:20 pm I'll have to be patient then. I have a knack for lucid dreaming and have been experimenting with practicing in my dreams (mantra recitations mostly). I was hoping to try to dive into a bit more.

I also have been met with same great misfortune and am now looking for another teacher and am eying other traditions.
Wouldn't this entail empowerment? I haven't been bestowed refuge vows. My understanding is that I need that and Bodhisattva vows for the empowerment to be valid.
My understanding has always been that Tantric empowerment automatically come with Bodhisattva vows, whether you take them or not. If you think about it, how else could it be? You can't practice Vajrayana with a Hinayana intention.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
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Jangchup Donden
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Re: Emphasis on Dream Yoga

Post by Jangchup Donden »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:05 am
Hazel wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:23 pm
Matt J wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:49 pm Why do you have to be patient?

Tenzin Wangyal is doing sleep/dream yoga retreats this summer. Andrew Holocek is about to start a Zoom bookclub on his book, Dream Yoga. Lama Lena has just started a Dream Yoga group also. Plenty of teachers would be willing to teach you.

Wouldn't this entail empowerment? I haven't been bestowed refuge vows. My understanding is that I need that and Bodhisattva vows for the empowerment to be valid.
My understanding has always been that Tantric empowerment automatically come with Bodhisattva vows, whether you take them or not. If you think about it, how else could it be? You can't practice Vajrayana with a Hinayana intention.
Well you can practice Vajrayana with a Hinayana intention (after all, our intentions aren't perfect), it's just that you'll only get at best a Hinayana result.
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Re: Emphasis on Dream Yoga

Post by Danny »

Jangchup Donden wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:22 pm

Well you can practice Vajrayana with a Hinayana intention (after all, our intentions aren't perfect), it's just that you'll only get at best a Hinayana result.
Huh? :shrug:
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Re: Emphasis on Dream Yoga

Post by PeterC »

Jangchup Donden wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:22 pm
Well you can practice Vajrayana with a Hinayana intention (after all, our intentions aren't perfect), it's just that you'll only get at best a Hinayana result.
No, you can’t. You would probably be committing a root downfall.
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Re: Emphasis on Dream Yoga

Post by Malcolm »

PeterC wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:44 am
Jangchup Donden wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:22 pm
Well you can practice Vajrayana with a Hinayana intention (after all, our intentions aren't perfect), it's just that you'll only get at best a Hinayana result.
No, you can’t. You would probably be committing a root downfall.
Correct, one cannot.
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Re: Emphasis on Dream Yoga

Post by WeiHan »

Usually before dream yoga, the practice is to recognize waking moment to be dreamlike. Because dream appearance has the closest similarity to empty appearance, this facilitates the realization of emptiness which is a goal of Mahayana practice. Realization of emptiness is the absolute bodhicitta. Longchenpa's resting trilogy volume 3 has clear description of dream yoga and explanation of its objective and how it works towards realization.
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